Why is God Malicious?

I was wondering if anyone could tell me why god is so cruel? I am having trouble understanding why god has created hell, or rather, why he would send so many of his creations there. I understand for some really bad things, but there are so many things in the bible that it is said one goes to ETERNAL PAIN, DAMNATION AND AGONY. Am i the only one who really realizes what that means? I mean, its no secret that at least some of how a person turns out is influenced by their environment.
So, what i am understanding is, a person, in the smallest pinprick of their existence in eternity, in an imperfect world, who makes a wrong decision in violating a rule of god, or someone who is simply ignorant of god and the bible, who has no one to teach them is going to burn eternally in pain and agony because of it? No matter what kind of person they are? A perfectly good, kind hearted, loving human being, will be damned into an eternity of torture, because they, for whatever reason, didnt wind up believing in the right thing in a world full of distractions and possibilities? This troubles me greatly and makes me not want to continue being a christian at all. even if everything in the bible is absolutely true, im not sure i can continue to bow my head to a god who is so callous, selfish and cruel.
it hurts me to realize how selfish, hateful, and violent god is portrayed in the bible. But i am told that the bible is truth. It makes me want to cry. If anyone can clarify for me, please do. God cannot know what love really means if he brings eternal suffering to those who feel love and kindness just because they use their god-given senses to arrive at a different conclusion than they are supposed to.

What do YOU think?



  1. Dear Divine Purity
    Here are just some things to think about.
    If you have studied languages you will know that some some words may be corectly translated into english yet not be able to carry the full meaning. In the translation of the old testament you can see this. Many verses will lead you to believe that God is essentially just waiting for you to mess up so that he can curse you or punish you. God “will” do this to you. But you need to understand that in the Hebrew it carried a permissive tense to the word, not a causative. Just like if you tell your child that if he doesnt look both ways before crossing the street that he will get hurt. Now your not purposely trying to get him hurt, but it would be allowed by you. So these verbs that God will hurt you etc carry the meaning of He will allow this to happen to you. And He allows these things because we have a free will. The entire New Testament bears this out to be true as Jesus continually contends with the Pharisees and the Saducees. They couldnt understand God was a loving Father. Just take the wowan caught in adultery in John 8. Jesus taught people that God loved them, i dont think Jesus was confused…but we might be:)
    Now hell wasnt created for mankind. It was created for the Devil. Sin must be punished. God would be unjust to not punish sin, and hell is the place. But man wasnt created to sin, He was created to have fellowship with God. He lost that fellowship when in the Garden of Eden. God then made a way for all mankind to regain fellowship with God by sending Jesus as a substitute. The problem currently isnt that people sin but that they havent accepted Jesus as their substitue. They would rather pay the price of sin themselves(whether knowingly or unknowingly).
    Jesus died for all the lost but not all the lost will accept Jesus. You could buy a product that has a mail in rebate. Everyone who buys the product gets the rebate but not everyone will send it in.
    And one other thing I want to say to you is that you should be very concerned for the lost. It was Gods command that we tell people about Him. He doesnt want anyone there, he sent his son to die for us so we dont go there. (Would you kill your son or daughter so a stranger could live? I doubt it) But unfortunately people are more concerned with other things than telling people about God. So is it God who is cruel or are we cruel.

  2. Surrendered says:

    There was a time when I thought God was like a divine monster and I was AFRAID of Him. I couldn’t understand the horrible pictures presented in the bible and there are parts of the Old Testament that, to this day, I don’t read. It’s only been through MUCH study in the word that God has begun to open things up to me and show me who He really is.

    The first passage He led me to was Matt 11:29 “Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am GENTLE and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls.” Meditate on this. Learn from Him. Cry out to Him to open up His word to you and show you His true nature. God is LOVE. If other passages seem to contradict this fact, ask Him to show you how to reconcile them. There are MANY seeming contradictions in the bible – they are put there on purpose so that you will seek diligently. You WILL find Him.

    Ask Him to show you what to take literally and what is to be taken figuratively. Remember when Jesus said to His disciples to eat His flesh and drink His blood? Some of them said “this is a hard statement, who can hear it?” and they stopped following Him. But His true disciples stuck by Him and the truth was revealed to them (that He wasn’t actually promoting cannibalism). At another time, Jesus told His disciples to “beware of the yeast of the Pharisees and Saducees” and they thought He was referring their not bringing any bread. Jesus admonished them that they should have known He was speaking figuratively, not literally.

    God will speak in His word using whatever imagery or tone is necessary to get someone’s attention. If He knows that His gentle voice and demeanor will be dismissed and ignored, then He will speak in such a way that WILL get our attention – it’s out of Love that He does this. Otherwise, He would just let us go on our merry way.

    Psalms that changed my life are Ps 73 and 44 which explain why innocents suffer – we are considered as sheep to be slaughtered – for His sake. Our whole purpose here is to experience the things that will conform us into the image of Christ – and that is a gift we will keep for all eternity. If there is no pressure on you, it’s because the potter is not shaping you on the wheel. Pressure does not mean He doesn’t love you – just the opposite!

    The bible is FULL of the coolest stuff – get addicted to it and allow Him to change your perception! “If you remain in My word THEN you are truly my disciples, and you shall know the truth and it will set you FREE”

  3. Question:
    Mark 9:48-50 …where their worm does not die and the fire is not quenched. FOR EVERYONE WILL BE SALTED WITH FIRE. Salt is good, but if the salt becomes unsalty, with what will you make it salty again?

    Matthew 5:13: You are the salt of the earth. If the salt has become tasteless, how will it be made salty again? It is good for nothing anymore, except to be thrown out and TRAMPLED UNDERFOOT BY MEN.

    The “fire” is a metaphor for what happens to unsalty or “carnal” Christians. They are taken out of true Christian fellowship and “trampled” by men of the world who don’t know God. This happened to the prodigal son and to the immoral man in 1Cor 5 who was removed from fellowship to motivate him to repent.

    How can it pertain to an afterlife when it says “EVERYONE will be salted with fire?” The goal is to make people salty again, so that they are preserved.

  4. jesseedavis says:

    Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?
    Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?
    1 Corinthians 6:2-3

    If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?
    1 John 4:20

    We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death.
    Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.
    1 John 3:14-15

    But the tongue can no man tame; it is an unruly evil, full of deadly poison.
    Therewith bless we God, even the Father; and therewith curse we men, which are made after the similitude of God.
    Out of the same mouth proceedeth blessing and cursing. My brethren, these things ought not so to be.
    James 3:8-10

    From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.
    Matthew 4:17

    And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.
    Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.
    Mark 10:30-31

    A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject;
    Knowing that he that is such is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned of himself.
    Titus 9:10-11

  5. jesseedavis says:

    Look around. Take a good close look at everything. Now, without doing anything more than looking at face value, what is of God, of the world, of Satan, or of man?

    At face value, there is a margin for argument on every issue. Look around at some of the major issues around the world. Abortion – whether it is right or wrong. Slavery – whether it is right or wrong. Homosexuality – whether it is right or wrong. Drugs, more particular marijuana and “lesser” drugs – right or wrong.

    Look at some of the issues around wherever you may live and you will see things being debated, things that you know are right, or wrong.

    Many issues are only issues, because the world does not agree with the Bible. However, what excuse has the Church? My challenge to everyone is to make no final decision on ANYTHING before studying the Bible and what it says on the issue. Your spirit is unreliable, it is impossible to distinguish whether it is the Spirit of God leading us to do something or whether it is a spirit of something other than God, when we are not actively in the Bible. Your feelings and conscience are corrupted along with our flesh. EVERY question has an answer in the Bible, if it doesn’t than it will never be of any significance to anything and you need not worry about it.

    Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
    2 Timothy 2:15

  6. OK. Time for a story. I have a brother..name of Gary. He hates sin ESPECIALLY smoking and drinking.

    Well, my brother is a warrior! He went around town, (this was a few years ago,) and layed his hands on some local taverns and commanded them to CLOSE in the name of Jesus!

    And, brothers and sisters, guess what?

    They closed. That’s right. Lights out for good. Some of them went out of business some caught fire, but they CLOSED and never again damned the souls of men with drink.

    Well fast forward to the present. Brothers think alike, a lot of times, no?

    Well, I have a pet sin that I hate. I’m sorry if I step on some toes, but I hate rock music. And I hate it more every day. in fact, I not only hate it, I despise it, I abhor it, I utterly detest it I loathe it and I abominate it.

    Did I mention that I hate it?

    As far as I’m concerned it’s a form of witchcraft and can all go back to the filthy, slimey pit it crawled out of.

    NOW that I have made that point abundantly clear, let me tell you there is a “classic rock” station here in town, call letters WNYK. Bill themselves as the “classic rock “EXPERIENCE” which is pretty transparent, crappy marketing hype for “just like the Jimmy Hendrix “experience” we will take you on a drug trip in your head.”

    Now they have this little habit of playing the same trash songs over and over and over and over year after year after year after year after year after year after year after year till I want to PUKE!!!

    How many times can a child of God hear “Lord take me down town I’m just looking for some tush???

    Or how many times can I listen to “lets get to the point lets roll another joint?”

    Or how many times must my ears and brain and spirit man be assaulted with the satanic hotel California or stairway to heaven?

    How many times can I stand to hear George Harrison praising Hare Krishna and calling him lord??

    Or how any times do I need to hear Hendrix or Pink Floyd tell me about the wonders of drugs?
    or Clapton glorifying Cocaine?????

    How many times do I have to be insulted when I hear that even though Jesus died on the cross, He still didn’t give us something to believe in????

    How many times do I have to hear Chicago sing about sitting in a room shooting up?

    Or how many times do I have to hear that free bird” is supposedly the greatest (drug drenched) guitar solo of all time, after about twenty zillion times of hearing it year after year after year after year???

    How many times do I need to hear about the stink of smoking in the boy’s room?

    or how many times do I need to hear young minds programmed for rebellion that your parents are square because they make you come home by ten at night and your mama is square because she don’t dance and your daddy is square because he don’t rock and roll?

    I tell you people, I have had enough!!!! I am fed up past my eyeballs with the devils garbage! I am NOT going to put up with this any more! I am COMMANDING that station to SHUT down, go bankrupt, and be made lower than the dead sea pit that was once Sodom and Gomorrah.

    As for the people who work there, well, they can join the ranks of the unemployed, as far as I’m concerned. It’s just too jolly bad.

    I’m commanding the stinking filth pit called classic rock WNYK to shut down and if you want to agree with me in prayer of agreement, then thank-you. if not, I guess I’ll just have to do it myself with God’s’ help.

    I have been VEXED way beyond my boiling point, and I am NOT going to take it any more.

    • divinepurity says:

      You seem to have hate so strong you can barely find the words to describe it. Pure hate like that is not good. being so severely filled with it that you begin to wish ill even on people you don’t know is not righteousness, its just blind hate. You don’t have to listen to these things, you have a choice to not listen to it yourself, as for others…
      If you are concerned about it, don’t just think to blindly destroy anything and anyone you can see that you don’t agree with, that is the easier and darker path. Instead, try to reach out to those people, show them the word of god. It is not your place to judge and smite people who listen to rock n roll, but to show them their error if you feel it is so. It is far more difficult to do it that way, but it is the right thing to do. Its not supposed to be easy. If you find yourself going down a path that feels righteous and is as simple as wishing ill, you need to take a step back and calm down for a moment. Hate like that is a tool of Satan, not God.

      • jesseedavis says:

        God hates evil and sin much much more than this man hates the blasphemies of man disguised as “music.” God even hates wicked men, and David was just in wishing ill on the wicked and the evil in many Psalms.

        I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.
        And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.
        Romans 12:1-2

      • Au contraire, take time to read the Psalms. David, a man after God’s own heart hated evil and sin and clearly expressed that REPEATEDLY.

        Rock music is a BLASPHEMOUS perversion of true music. Rock music DISGRACES the precious name of our lovely saviour Jesus, and SPITS in his face. Rock music puts him BACK on the cross and crucifies HIM all over again. “And while the King was looking down, the Jester stole his thorny crown.” (Don Mclean) so the devil stole Jesus’ crown of thorns, huh ???? Hmmmmmm. I understood that he was the one to place it there in the first place. “Can you say blasphemy boys and girls? I knew you could.”

        Imagine David the psalmist, singing his Psalms to music (which he did) Imagine him singing 23’rd Psalm (The lord is my shepherd.) Now in your mind is he singing gently and sweetly?
        Now try to imagine him singing it to the Lord with a rock beat and rock lead guitar. Go ahead. Try to imagine that picture. try to imagine him singing it as KISS would sing it. Imagine him singing it and thrusting his tongue out, serpent like, several inches as gene simmons does. Imagine him gyrating and thrusting his hips like Elvis as he sings unto the Lord. Come on Give glory to God now and imagine it. Or try to imagine him singing it to the beat of “Smoking in the boys room.”

        You can’t do it can you? It is an ugly picture if you do manage. Why? Because rock and roll is horribly UGLY like it’s creator, satan.

        If you read my post carefully, repeat CAREFULLY with attention to detail, you will see that I was explicit that I don’t hate PEOPLE. I hate SIN and I hate the fruitless works of darkness of which rock and roll music is up near the top of the list. Rock and roll has it’s roots in REBELLION, and God HATES rebellion and clearly says it is as the sin of witchcraft.

        Rock and roll and witchcraft are hand in hand if not the same. Do some sincere research and find out that I am telling you the FACTS.

        And it is perfectly scripturally justified and commanded to hate these things.
        As for what you say about that I can choose not to listen to these things, how is that physically possible when the radio at work is pumping it out full blast 24/7 in all it’s “scream at the top of your lungs” hellish glory?

        In my home I don’t hear it, because I choose not to turn on the radio, but at work or in a public place it is blasted in my ears, the same way a non smoker may go into a public place and have cigarette smoke forced into his lungs against his will. Should he hold his breath? Then should I stop my auditory senses? I don’t have that ability. Am I to walk around all day with my fingers in my ears?

        And yes, I HAVE tried ear plugs and it goes right through them. So please do not say I can choose not to listen to it. That is not based on facts, but conjecture.

        And where did I say I wanted to destroy anything and anyone that I don’t agree with? The only thing I want to destroy is the devil’s works. For one, it’s not ME who disagrees with rock and roll, it’s the Spirit of God who lives in me.

        We are living in nice times. In the old testament the punishment for rebellion, commanded by God, was to be stoned to death at the gates.

        Again, that’s not my idea. It’s in the Bible. I didn’t write the Bible, I just relate what’s in there.

        And why should I not hate rock and roll? Why should I not hate that which destroys millions of precious souls that Jesus died for and drags them down the “HIGHWAY TO HELL” while they are “Dancing With The devil”? (Their lyrics, not mine. Just the facts ma’am, Just the facts. As I said, my soul has been sorely VEXED by this garbage for YEARS. Does there not come a time when enough is enough??? Should I tolerate satan’s antics for another decade??? WHEN do I draw the proverbial line in the sand?

        I’ll put it another way. It’s pure TORTURE for me to have to hear that trash. Not only is it rebellion against my Savior, but I was brought up with beautiful classical music.I played classical guitar for many years. I played in an orchestra. I UNDERSTAND the elements of music. My ears are extremely sensitive musically. Rock and roll is a PERVERSION of the rules of music as created by God. There is little or no harmony, most of the time the melody is non existant, (You can’t have melody when you are screaming bloody murder at the top of your lungs) and the RHYTHM (drums) is put at the forefront.

        Did you know that melody was created by God to appeal to our spirit, harmony was created to appeal to our soul, and rythym was created to appeal to the BODY? Rock and roll was purposely hatched in HELL by satan and his hordes to appeal to the body and the FLESH. The musical priorities in rock and roll have been turned UPSIDE DOWN. It is a PERVERSION. Again, it appeals to the flesh of man. rock and roll is party music. Yes, let’s party down all the way down that highway to hell. BUT, let’s make sure we don’t invite that Jesus dude to the party. he’s square, after all. Just like your mama and daddy who are square because they don’t dance and rock and roll. and they actually have the audacity to set a rule for you to be home from the date by 10. if you bring it on home late it’s a “sin” Cant you just HEAR the rebellion DRIPPING from those lyrics???? If you can’t may I recommend some prayer and fasting.

        Yes, I WILL preach on because I am RIGHT.

        Now read what God says in his word about the flesh. Then come back and tell me rock music is alright. Acid rock, hard rock, punk rock…it’s all based in rebellion.

        And yes, I HAVE talked to others at work about rock and roll and how it is of the devil, hatched in the slime pits of hell, and it went right over their heads. They looked at me like I was from mars.

        But yeah, Your doggone right I hate the sin of rock and roll. And it is a PERFECT hatred that is of Yahweh.

        • Just to illustrate what I am trying to convey, i have copied and pasted two very small sections from the well known testimony of Seven Columbian Youth. These seven youths say that the Lord Jesus took them on a literal tour of hell. The testimony is very long, (You can google it for the entire testimony) But here are a couple sections that deal with rock music

          Part 1

          The place was divided into different sections of torment and suffering. One of the first sections that the Lord allowed us to see was the “Valley of the Cauldrons” as we called it. There were millions of cauldrons. The cauldrons were inlaid at the level of the ground; each of them was burning with lava inside. Inside each one was the soul of a person who had died and gone to hell.

          As soon as those souls saw the Lord, they started to shout and screamed, “Lord, have mercy on us! Lord give me a chance to get out of this place! Lord, take me out and I will tell the world that this place is real!” But the Lord didn’t even look at them. There were millions of men, women and young people in that place. We also saw homosexuals and drunkards in torment. We saw all of these people shouting in such great torment.

          It shocked us to see how their bodies were destroyed. Worms were coming in and out of their empty eye sockets, mouths, and ears; and were penetrating the skin all through their bodies. This fulfills the word of God written in the book of Isaiah 66:24 “They shall go forth; they shall gaze upon the dead bodies of those who have rebelled against Me; for their worm shall not die, nor shall their fire be quenched; they shall be an abhorrence to all mankind.” Also in Mark 9:44,”Where their worm never ceases and the fire is not put out.” We were just horrified at what we were watching. We saw flames about 9 to 12 feet high. Within each flame, there was the soul of a person that has died and went to hell.

          The Lord allowed us to see a man who was inside of one of the cauldrons. He was upside down and the flesh on his face was falling in pieces. He remained watching the Lord intently; and then started to shout and call on the name of Jesus. He said, “Lord have mercy! Lord give me a chance! Lord take me out of this place!” But the Lord Jesus didn’t want to look at him. Jesus simply turned his back on him. When Jesus did this, the man started to curse and blaspheme the Lord. This man was John Lennon, the member of the satanic music group “The Beatles.” John Lennon was a man who mocked and made fun of the Lord during his life. He said that the Christianity was going to disappear and Jesus Christ would be forgotten by everyone. However, today this man is in hell and Jesus Christ is alive!! Christianity hasn’t disappeared either.

          Part Two

          We then got far away from there and arrived at a place with giant doors. As we approached them, they opened for us. On the other side we saw a giant cavern. As I looked up I saw different color lights were moving like a cloud of smoke. Suddenly, we heard music; salsa, ballenato, rock, and different kinds of popular music that people hear on the radio. The Lord made a movement with His hand, and we saw millions and millions of people hung up with chains in their hands. They were jumping wildly over the fire.

          The Lord looked at us and said: “Look, these are the wages for the dancers.” They had to jump wildly up and down to the beat of the music. If salsa was playing, they had to jump to that beat, if any other kind of music was playing, they had to jump to that beat. They could never stop jumping. But worse than that, their shoes had 6 inch spikes on the bottom. Whenever they jumped it would pierce their feet, and they never had a moment’s rest. When someone would try to stop, demons would come at once and stab them with spears, cursed them, and saying, “Praise him! This is your kingdom now, Praise Satan! Praise him! You can’t stop, praise him! Praise him! You have to praise him! You have to jump! You have to dance! You can not stop one single second.”

          It was terrible that many of the people were Christians who knew the Lord, but they were in night clubs when they died. Maybe you are asking, “Where does it say in the Bible that it is wrong to dance?” In James 4:4, the Word of God says: “Do you not realize, you adulteresses, that friendship with the world is enmity toward God? Therefore, whoever determines to be a friend of the world becomes God’s enemy.” Also, in 1 John 2:15-17, “Neither love the world nor the things in the world. Whoever loves the world has not the Father’s love in his heart, because everything in the world, the passions of the flesh, the desires of the eyes, and the proud display of life have their origin not from the Father but from the world. And the world with its lust passes away, but he who does the will of God remains for ever.” Remember the world will pass away, all this will perish, but the one who does the will of God stands forever.


          Anybody here still wanna party all night long on the highway to hell while dancing with the devil????

          • Doug:

            I read on the Columbian Youths on freecdtracts.com about their so called hell experiences. I gave it no credibility. None. Either this never happened or they don’t know how or what to do about it, which I have told you can happen. Thus, their trip is futile and I do not believe God is into futile hell trips.

            I question whether God allows young teenagers to go to heaven or hell. Their minds aren’t ready for this kind of thing. They lack the maturity to handle this kind of information. I saw a video of this young columbian teenage girl rambling on a video on the internet about hell and after 5 minutes I turned it off. There was no blessing, information or anything of value whatsoever. I dubbed her a flake.

            Rock n roll is not sin, no more than nuclear power is sin. It’s how you use it. Do I advocate AC/DC Highway to hell? No but I love the Eagles and many song by the Beatles and other rock musicians. The question to ask is how is the music effecting you?

            Don’t go get off on some goofy tangent on what some flaky teenager said. You got better things to do.

          • Its not a proof one way or the other, but I wasn’t particularly edified by their story at all. I did not come away from it feeling more love and respect for Jesus.

          • Back up brother! Back up a bit! This testimony from the Colombian youth is not in any way, shape or form what set me off. I’m not on a tangent. Rather, these are my strong convictions, and I believe I have the mind of Christ in this.

            I have understood the roots of rock music for years. Many years before I ever read the Colombian youth thing.

            I thought the facts I presented were pretty cogent. I was careful to give a lot of detail and examples to substantiate my views.

            I thought what I presented was pretty damning as far as the overall picture concerning Rock Music.

            But you say “Rock and Roll is not sin”

            Come again?

            You stated the Eagles for instance. I am deadly curious why you gave as your first example a group who were self confessed satan worshippers? And whose greatest hit was a song about their experience at the first church of satan in California which was headed by Anton Lavey?(sp?)

            When you say Rock is not bad, perhaps your statement will have much more cogency if you could give me specific examples of the “not sin ” part of Rock “music”.

            I WANT you to win me over. If I’m WRONG, I WANT to be corrected. But you would need to present at least half as many real life examples of the “not sin” part of rock music as I did present examples of rebellion and blasphemy, before I could give any credence to your statements.

            Present me with some FACTS brother. Where is rock and roll not sinful?

          • Doug:

            I have no interest in winning you over. It’s a lifestyle issue.

            My guess is the Eagles song you refer is witchy women. The origin of that song is unknown to me. However, if it came from where you state this does not turn my world upside down. Lots of writers compose songs based on experiences they’ve had, whether it be romantic, drugs, or a visit to Anton Laveys church. I think all this falls in the non-profit department.

            I do a lot of things that are “not profitable” to my soul or the Kingdom of God. I watch movies, golf for hours on end, travel, read secular books, listen to all kinds of music and so on. Yet, I go to a church where we sing songs like “all I want to do is glorify you Lord in all I do”. Hogwash. I’d say 95% of what I do brings no glory per se to God. Maybe it’s more. Maybe it’s less. He’ll let me know on the day of rewards.

            Is rock n roll sinful? What is rock n roll? Elvis Presley? Jerry Lee lewis? The Beatles? Metallica?

            We sing praises at my church that are more rock than many rock bands.

            Stop wasting your time on this worthless pursuit. There’s other topics more stimulating and important.

          • Abortion is a lifestyle issue too. So is homosexuality, drugs, etc, and God is very interested in our lifestyles. If He wasn’t, then Christ died in vain.

            If I had felt it was a “worthless pursuit”, I would have never started. Actually, I don’t think it’s worthless. Whatever blasphemes the name of my Lord is something that needs to be addressed.

            But anyway, be that as it may, the song I was referring to, since you mentioned it, is “Hotel California.”

          • Doug:

            I copied a section off wikipedia regarding the eagles song “Hotel California”. This is what it stated:

            The song’s lyrics describe the title establishment as a luxury resort where “you can check out anytime you like, but you can never leave.” On the surface, the song tells the tale of a weary traveler who becomes trapped in a nightmarish luxury hotel that at first appeared inviting and tempting. The song is generally understood to be an allegory about hedonism and self-destruction in the Southern California music industry of the late 1970s; Don Henley called it “our interpretation of the high life in Los Angeles” and later reiterated “it’s basically a song about the dark underbelly of the American dream and about excess in America, which is something we knew a lot about.”

            During a July 17, 2008 appearance on The Howard Stern Show on Sirius Satellite Radio, Don Felder described the origins of the lyrics: “Don Henley and Glen wrote most of the words. All of us kind of drove into LA at night. Nobody was from California, and if you drive into LA at night… you can just see this glow on the horizon of lights, and the images that start running through your head of Hollywood and all the dreams that you have, and so it was kind of about that… what we started writing the song about. Coming into LA… and from that Life In The Fast Lane came out of it, and Wasted Time and a bunch of other songs.”

            The abstract nature of the lyrics has led listeners to their own interpretations over the years, including some claims, spread by word of mouth and internet, of Satanic aspects. Other rumors suggested that the “Hotel California” was referring to a hotel run by cannibals, the Camarillo State Mental Hospital, or a metaphor for cancer. The California Rehabilitation Colony (CRC) in Norco originally was a luxury hotel that was converted to a military base in WWII. After the war it was acquired as California’s narcotics rehabilitation prison. Addicts can check in voluntarily, but discharge is determined by their progress. Blind spots are monitored by mirrors on the ceilings. The guard captain prevents prison-brewed wine ‘pruno’ from being used. These claims have been consistently refuted by the band.

            So Doug, it appears there have been rumors of a satanic bases but the writers deny it.

            Be careful when you plunge off the cliff on these kind of things. I give the writers the benefit of the doubt. However, I do admit that rock music as well as other kinds of music can be used to be a demonic and dark influence.



          • jesseedavis says:

            It is my hope that this is not true of you, but I must say what I must.

            If you are satisfied with the stagnant position you are in, this is not good. When you can admit without shame that the majority of your time, especially if it is close to all of your time, is spent in activities that do not glorify the Lord, than I must warn you. This is addressed to all who it applies, if you stay on the same spiritual plane for even two days, it is a tragedy. It is God’s desire that we be continually hungry for Him, thirsting after Him, denying ourselves and crucifying our flesh. If you my brother have no desire to change before that glorious and wonderful day, than you may not get anything and you may not end up where you think you will. Consider this a warning from the Lord Himself to you. Repent!

            As for your last comment “Stop wasting your time on this worthless pursuit. There’s other topics more stimulating and important.” NEVER, EVER tell a man of God not to pursue the burden of his heart. EVER! That is the very same thing as a Roman Catholic priest telling a believer that he is not allowed to read the Bible. Doug, you continue to follow the Lord rather than men, and you do not stop EVER until the Lord Himself tells you to. This is to all those who read this. NEVER follow men’s guidance when the Lord tells you to do or not do something.

            He has provided a very valid and very descriptive reason of this burden and it is very Biblical and factual, do not tell him to disobey the Lord on the “worthless pursuits” we come up against. The fact is, if something has taken even one soul to hell, it is no longer worthless to speak against, but is rather just as important as murder and Satanism or any other major issue.

          • Jesse:

            Well …. let’s see what Mr. Holier than thou has to say to me, what was that you said Mr. Self Righteous?

            “If you are satisfied with the stagnant position you are in”.

            Wow…Mr. All Seeing and All Knowing claims I am in a “stagnant position”. Really? Nice of you to tell me. Are you a seer Jesse? You know so much about me.

            Oh and get this one from the big man himself ……yea Big Bad Jesse speaks for the Lord himself in the following:

            “Consider this a warning from the Lord Himself to you. Repent!

            Oh Jesse I’m shakin in my boots. I’m bitin my nails to the nub. Wow…Let me guess? You’re the big bad prophet that’s come to town to whip me and put me in my place. Wow! I can hear all the girls ohh and ahh when you walk down the street.

            So Jesse …here’s some real good advice for you. Take a hike and don’t ever reply to one of my posts again . You got that? Your religious attitude stinks like a rotting tird in the Texas sun. Go climb another mountain and point your religious gun somewhere else oh weighty one. I’ve met religious devils like you before. Trust me. There’s a boat load of you fools out there. You’ll eventually sink. It’s just a matter of time.


          • JustAGuy says:
            Mat 24:44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh. Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season? Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing.

            :47 Verily I say unto you, That he shall make him ruler over all his goods. But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken; The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of, And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

            David, Jesse is right to warn you based on how you say you spend your time. When the Judge of all the Earth comes He will be looking for those actively serving our Lord’s interests, not our own. Your response to him was to tear into him personally, verbally “smiting” your fellow servant. Please reconsider your heart in this brother.

            The Bible tells us we cannot be partakers of the Lord’s table and the table of devils at the same time. I believe the song Doug was referencing to be Hotel California.

            Pro 9:8 Reprove not a scorner, lest he hate thee: rebuke a wise man, and he will love thee.

            Pro 13:1 A wise son heareth his father’s instruction: but a scorner heareth not rebuke.


          • Timothy the Tyrannt:

            Can’t help but notice that you literally dive at every chance you get on this site to rebuke and point out what you believe to be correction for everybody Timbo. Last week you were jumpin all over Doug and now me.

            You don’t even know all the facts boy wonder. You’re just eggin to rebuke and blast anyone you see fit. Got out your big sword and you’re ready for battle?. Well…you got the wrong guy cuz I will kick you in the teeth and throw you back in the rat pile from where you came. You believe you are called to rebuke and correct everyone. BMOC Tim.

            You and Jesse are of the same rotten spirit. A rotten judgmental spirit. You think you’re in a position to critique my life and what I do with my time. People like you give christianity a bad name.

            I will do with my time as I please Timbo and it is no concern of yours whatsoever. Whether I play golf, what kind of music I listen too, whether I choose to watch movies or sports, what I read or where I go. You got that oh anointed one? Mr. Judge of the world? I can smell your stench from here. It’s bad.

            In the future. Do not reply to my comments and I will not reply to yours.

            Fair enough?


          • Just for the record folks, name calling is not acceptable on this website. Lets be civil even with the people whose comments hurt us. I think people of the world can keep these standards when it suits them, and we can too, if Jesus Christ lives in us.

      • warrior daughter says:

        So you think God is malicious, evil,mean, ornery, hateful, bitter, sinister, spiteful,resentful, cantankerous, ill disposed,unpropiteous, vitriolic, rancorous??? These words mean the same as malicious….All of these words counterdict the very essence of God and His grace which is shed toward all men… Comparing a good person who does everything right and good cannot compare with God…The good person (his righteousness) still is as filthy rags compared to God’s righteousness…….You are greatly deceived when you think that God is evil……..It is man who is all of these words that you have used to describe God but it is God who loves everyone with no strings attached to this great love of His….. ..

      • JustAGuy says:

        DP, time to wrap your brain around some truth. God is love. His law is love. Sin is the transgression of the law of love. Sin seeks to kill, steal and destroy innocent lives. If I love the sheep, I have to identify the wolves. Sin is actively seeking to destroy all good, so it must be rooted out mercilessly (for it is merciless). Calling out sin is good. Sinners are all called to repent, not to die the death of the wicked. God rules, you do not , praise the LORD!

        How many times do we see the word “hate” thrown out as an accusation by those who have a log in their own eye?


  7. Dear brothers and sisters,

    I do wish that those who believe in ultimate reconciliation for all (universalists) or total destruction of the sinner (annihilationists) would be correct.

    If we find the pains of this life hard to bear at times, who would like to contemplate a thousand years, let alone an infinite period of horrendous suffering?

    Without being dogmatic on this sensitive topic, I think we should take the worst case scenario as a genuine possibility. Perhaps then, if we have compassion for people, and concern about the horror of sin and the honor of God, we will put ourselves out a little more to help people be reconciled with God before it is too late.

    I see today that 90% of professing Christians will not fast and pray for the salvation of the lost, nor will they talk with people about the gospel. It is because Satan has lulled us to sleep. We can not bear the thought of a scenario so painful, so we prefer to shut it out and live as if it is not true. This applies even to people who profess to believe in everlasting conscious punishment of the wicked.

    Now concerning the idea of a once for all destruction of the human being, there are a couple of Scriptures that are hard to explain. One is in Revelation 14:10,11,12

    “And he will be tormented by fire and brimstone before the holy angels and before the Lamb. And the smoke of their torment goes up for ever and ever. And those worshiping the beast and its image HAVE NO REST NIGHT AND DAY, even if anyone receives the mark of his name.”

    This shows that hell is open to the eyes of Jesus. And if it is a “once-for-all” kind of deal, why does the SMOKE of their torment go up for ever and ever? Does that not imply a continual burning? And what point is there in talking about REST, or NIGHT AND DAY, if there is no sense of time in that horrible place?

    If “the worm does not die” then what is its purpose after the soul has been “reduced eternally to ashes” so to speak?

    Now how could God be just in allowing such an eternal torment to take place for a finite number of transgressions?

    Have you considered that the people in hell will be continually blaspheming God? Have you considered that they will be continually full of every kind of lust and sin in their hearts forever? And God looks upon it, even in hell! Therefore, their punishment will be as infinite as their crimes against God.

    Sometimes we would all wish that God did not actually give us a free will to choose evil at all. But that is because we are thining that human happiness is a higher value than God’s plan for having genuine SONS (not slaves). Without the freedom of choice, God would only ever be able to have slaves. But God will look upon the overcomers for all eternity with such joy and favor because they CHOSE (with the help of His grace) to follow the way of the cross even though they could see things so imperfectly. And God will bless us with indescribable spiritual riches for the “Ages of the Ages” if we are faithful for a few short years.

    That is why we should train ourselves to suffer in the will of God now, and not choose the path of easygoing self-indulgence. Love means inconveniencing myself or enduring pain with joy for the sake of the benefit of others. Jesus did that for all of us, but now, we need to respond appropriately.

  8. jesseedavis says:

    If there is one thing you can get out of the Bible about hell it is this. GOD DOES NOT WANT ANYONE TO GO THERE!!!! Consider these passages.

    Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: – Matthew 25:41

    But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him. – Romans 5:8-9

    For as by one man’s disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous. – Romans 5:19
    – Understand this situation, Satan tempted Eve to eat the fruit, Adam willfully ate it too. That was Satan’s plan, destroy God’s treasure, the unique creation, the ONLY creation made in His image – MAN. (It was an attack towards God, rather than towards man.) Essentially, the line of thinking could’ve been, if Satan goes down, so does God’s creations. God’s plan was this – Romans 5:8-9, John 3:16.

    I truly believe we go to hell with Satan by our own choice. This is because for one, God doesn’t want us there, and two we have a Way out of hell and into heaven – Jesus the Christ, the Son of God. If God let all of us into heaven, then firstly heaven would not be heaven, it would be earth all over again. Secondly, he would be going against the free will He gave us, which means we would no longer have a say in the matter and in turn means it is not a relationship, but slavery, which He does not want either. So therefore, either way He loses. That my friend is not Christianity, it is religion, and fairly close to Buddhism, Hinduism, etc.

    • I have always thought of it this way. Vastly simplifying matters, (admittedly) But heaven is a choice.

      From the time we are born as infants we are covered with his blood. There are a few years as we grow where we reach an age (it’s not the same with EVERONE!!!) God determines each individual as having reached that point.) Any way, we reach an age where our conscience is awakened, becomes mature enough where we can make rational decisions concerning right and wrong, good and evil.

      With me so far?

      When we reach that age, the obvious, wise choice is to follow Jesus, and live for righteousness, and THUS have a place in heaven. no?

      So heaven is a conscious choice. We have to, at a certain point in the time line of our life make that decision. No one can make it for us, as we are free moral agents,

      Now if we go south, then plainly we did not make that choice to go to heaven. Therefore people go to hell by DEFAULT!!!!!

      I’ll say it again, hell is the default setting of heaven!

      Defenition- Default: loss due to not showing up; “he lost the game by default”

      • The age of accountability was 20 years in the OT. Those 20 and under were not held accountable as their Jewish parents were in the desert. They made it to the promise land with Kaleb and Jacob while all the rest ran in circles til they died.

        In the NT Paul said when he was young he was “alive” to God but then the commandment came, sin revived and he died.
        However, he never states what time period in his life he was held accountable for sin. When he did sin he then died spiritually like the rest of us and then he needed Jesus to redeem that sin and reconnect him, spiritually.

        Let’s have a discussion.

        Are we gonna be M&M or R&R?

        This means everything in the OT is either 1.) mandatory lest modified in the NT or 2.) Repealed unless repeated in the NT

        Is the age of accountability 20 today? Does it vary based on knowledge and awareness as Doug suggests?


        • I have to add this: Consider a person who is mentally not fully developed. A person who for instance is born with an IQ that never rises above infant level because of a congenital brain defect. I want to say “mentally retarded” but I don’t know if that is politically correct. Handicapped! That’s the term I’m looking for. Some people are born with such a brain defect that their IQ never rises above that of a small baby. They are forced to live in special homes and such. I have been there and SEEN them stare through blank eyes and drool on themselves. And that’s all they can do. They need someone to change their diaper, even. (I am NOT making fun of them. I”m just stating the way their reality is as I have seen it with my own eyes.)

          if the age were twenty, and one of those people reached that age, but STILL could not understand sentences and oral communication that is expressed to them, and you could tell them the gospel, but they simply could not grasp it. And they reach that age of 20 and don’t accept the Lord, where are they going to spend eternity?

          That is why, for one example that God in his infinite and perfect knowledge of each one of our mental capacity would surely judge each case on it’s own merits.

          That is just my opinion. As is all the opinions I spout.

          Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain.

    • JustAGuy says:

      I agree my friend! The point is “DON’T GO THERE!” Whether it is eternal punishing or not – it is not where you want to be! I see many people who would rather go to hell because they do not think God is just for putting people there. Is that a perverted self righteousness or not??!!

      Blessings and Peace,

      • What’s sad is the rock and rollers who BRAG about it by screaming lyrics like “I’m on the highway to hell” And “dancing with the devil”

        Man, that’s ignorance gone to seed!

        But if they sing that they are on the highway to hell, i can only reply, I guess you MUST be, then. But don’t expect ME to join you!!!!! the day I do will be a cold day in…..wait. I can’t say that because it will be an oxymoron.

        The point is they actually are convinced it’s going to be a literal party.

        Boy have I got NEWS FOR THEM.

        And it makes me screaming mad when they play the radio and literally SCREAM those damnable lyrics in my ear. Man, the devil is rude. It’s not bad enough that you are exposed to his garbage lyrics through rock and roll, he’s gotta SCREAM them like a wild banshee to boot.

        But my God does not NEED to scream. God is a gentleman. He says what he means, and has no need to force his words in your brain through screaming.

        Besides, why scream when you can THUNDER!!!!!!!

    • You know, maybe I think too much. but the problem is every time I do, I invariably hit bumps in the road..for instance, Mary Baxter claims to have been taken on a tour of hell by Jesus. I heard her speak live in a church and she said that there are no children in hell!!
      I easily accepted that, considering our Lord’s love for children.

      But the other day I picked up a magazine that showed photos of, and told the story of Muslim children ARMED to the teeth with rifles, bullets and other deadly ammunition and the story further went on to tell of these kids great hatred for Israel and all Jews. Their one driving goal in life at their tender,young age is to kill a Jew. They are filled with seething hatred for Abrahams seed. I know this is sick to hear, but it’s a fact.

      Now YES, their parents are unquestionably to blame for filling their hearts with this hatred, (Better for a millstone to be hung about their neck and they be drowned in the depths of the sea) but nevertheless, the hatred is real. We know, that is you and me, that it satanic in origin, still it is a fact.

      Now when I read stories like this, I question Mary’s statement. Lord please forgive me.

  9. Anurekha says:

    Relating to this topic, I really liked and learned from this article http://www.christian-faith.com/forjesus/nature-of-God. I hope you too will benifit from it.

  10. michael says:

    Ezekiel 33:11 Say to them: ‘As I live,’ says the Lord GOD, ‘I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but that the wicked turn from his way and live. Turn, turn from your evil ways! For why should you die, O house of Israel?’

    The Bible says that God does not take pleasure in the the death of the wicked. But we must realize something. God is not a humanist. Much of our Christianity has been mixed with the philosophy of humanism. Humanism says that “man is the measure of all things”, or that “the happiness of humanity is the highest value”.

    If humanism should rule, then God ought to apologize for having standards and enforcing them to our hurt. He should realize that WE DON’T LIKE PAIN and nothing He could ever say could justify inflicting pain on so many people. God should realize that, after all, He is just there to be Our Almighty Servant, to make us happy, to provide for our needs, and to make us feel better about ourselves. If you think about it, a lot of “ministry” that goes on today operates under these assumptions.

    We are deceived if we think that we are basically good by nature, and God is basically evil.

    In the Book of Revelation, and in Isaiah chapter 6, we have a picture of what goes on in God’s throne room. This is God’s room, where He lives, and He can have any music going on there that He chooses. And what are the words to the song? “HOLY, HOLY, HOLY is the Lord God Almighty!” He could have had the angels sing “LOVING, LOVING, LOVING is the Lord God Almighty” and that would have been true, but it is not what God chose for the angels to sing.

    God is Holy – therefore He cannot embrace Christ rejecting rebels with eternal favor. We may not like it – but the Bible says that God is ANGRY with the wicked every day.

    Everyone who goes to hell does so because they wilfully REJECT THE TRUTH and SUPPRESS IT IN UNRIGHTEOUSNESS. Even people who never hear of the Savior do that. Its not that lost people are just unfortunate people, who deserve a better chance. They are REBELS who have chosen to shut God out of their lives.

    Rom 3:9 What then? Are we better than they? Not at all. For we have previously charged both Jews and Greeks that they are all under sin.
    Rom 3:10 As it is written: “THERE IS NONE RIGHTEOUS, NO, NOT ONE;

    God is under no obligation to deliver the gospel message to everyone, or even to provide a gospel – although he does provide a gospel, because of His great love. God has told US to deliver the gospel to all people. If we don’t do it, WE ARE TO BLAME, not God.

    Honestly, if you think people are basically good-hearted people who want to know and follow the truth, go out and talk with more people about Jesus, as I did last night at the shopping mall. I find today that about 50% of people in Australia at least do not even want to CONSIDER the possibility of the reality of Jesus and most of the other 50% do not want to obey the truth. So there it is. God is putting up with a lot. One day, there will be hell to pay.

    It is because GOD IS GOOD that He is actively OPPOSED TO EVIL and will ultimately STAMP IT OUT and REMOVE IT. He will remove it from the hearts of His people, and those who have refused to embrace the truth will be banished to Outer Darkness forever – including many of God’s servants who were unfaithful – just read the gospels.

    All this happens because GOD, not us, is the highest value. He is calling us to forsake this world, die to our own selfish and foolish lusts, and live as His Children holding out the Word of Life to others.

    Jesus said, “And blessed is he who is not offended because of Me.”

    • divinepurity says:

      “HOLY, HOLY, HOLY is the Lord God Almighty!” He could have had the angels sing “LOVING, LOVING, LOVING is the Lord God Almighty” and that would have been true, but it is not what God chose for the angels to sing.

      What is holy if not love? Love, and light go hand in hand. To be holy is to be…what? There is so much preaching through fear. If you preach with fear, you inspire only fear of god, not love for god. Should everyone only be good and loving to each other out of fear of hell? Because that is the only thing so many believe. They act a certain way, out of fear of pain, not out of love or altruism. is that what god wants?

      Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God and knoweth God … Beloved, if God so loved us, we ought also to love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us.”

      ~1 John 4:7, 11-12~

      “In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent His only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through Him. Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that He loved us, and sent His Son to be the satisfaction for our sins.”

      ~John 4:19~

      It is apparent that so many believe in only fear when you look around and see how many humans judge one another with hate in their hearts. It is NOT our place to judge others and tell them they are damned. It is our place to show them love, compassion, forgiveness, and his light.

      “Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned, forgive, and ye shall be forgiven.”

      ~Luke 6:37~

      “And be ye kind one to another, tender-hearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ’s sake hath forgiven you.”

      ~Ephesians 4:32~

      “There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear … ”

      ~1 John 4:18~

      “For this is the message that ye heard from the beginning, that we should love one another.”

      ~1 John 3:11~

      There are countless other places in the bible that say love IS important. To love is to accept someone and to help them with their shortcomings, not to point a finger and judge them with malice. And my question was, why would god damn and eternal soul, to pain without end, because his creation is by its nature not perfect?

      He says he loves us. And i believe that now. I think the bible has been corrupted by man’s hand. I think it is easy to see how and where too. The bible says god is wrathful, selfish, righteous, loving, forgiving, violent, tender, jealous even altruistic at times. That sounds far too human to me. The Bible says he cannot be understood, but indeed, if you look at him as a man he is incredibly simple by the words of the bible. Now, I do not believe this is the case. Humans have twisted the teachings of Jesus to serve their own ends. To control through fear and hate. That does not sound like the word of god to me. Jesus said to love each other, not to love certain others who only think exactly like you, and to judge and condemn all others. He said not to judge, it is not our place. Judging is all so many people seem to want to do. People are so quick to point a finger rather than acknowledge their own faults. They are so desperate to feel righteous that they are literally happy to persecute anyone they can. And for what? out of fear to prove to god they are loyal and pure so they wont be sent to hell? That doesn’t sound like the big picture god was going for. And if it is, then we are all already damned to an eternity of hell in a dark heaven under his “holy” light. For the record, i do not believe or hope for that to be the case.

      • Dear divinepurity,

        You write, “I think the bible has been corrupted by man’s hand. I think it is easy to see how and where too.”

        Do you seriously believe that Almighty God was unable or unwilling to protect His Holy Word from the corruptions of men? Is he neither Sovereign, nor competent?

        Like the muslims, who also believe that the Bible was changed, you are going to have to show WHEN and HOW it was corrupted if any serious thinker should take you seriously on this matter.

        The majority of New Testament texts give the true Word of God. The Alexandrian texts and Vaticanus texts upon which the NIV and many modern translations are based ARE CORRUPTED somewhat, but we have always had the true Word of God. But you know what, even those manuscripts will not help you in your case to cast God in the image of a tolerant father of all mankind who just ignores the SIN of the wicked.

        The writings of the early church fathers so called also confirm the view that the Christianity of their day was a very strongly moral movement which believed in a God of Judgment.

        There is nothing wrong with the Fear of God. In fact the Bible says that “the fear of the Lord is clean, enduring forever”. “The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom” and many other things. In fact, there are more promises of God associated with the fear of the Lord than with any other characteristic that could exist in the heart of man.

        It is not that God is not loving, or that God does not want us to be loving. God IS loving, but He loves with a jealous love. He won’t indefinitely tolerate being spurned and spit upon by the wickedness of men. In fact, whether you or I or anyone else likes it, he will punish those who do not know God, and who do not OBEY the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ (2 Thessalonians 1:8,9). God, by virtue of His divine authority and sovereign Lordship, is entitled to judge in ways we are not. One thing I am seeking to do is to inform people that HE DID NOT LIE when He said the things He did about judgement.

        Would you like to find another God, if the God of the Bible does not suit you? Would you like to create a god of your own imagination, one that is humanistic and realises he can only be tolerate if he works unceasingly for the happiness and comfort of wicked men? Many make that choice. They do so in violation of the Second Commandment however, which says not to make a graven image and bow down and worship it. The image can be in your head, not just in wood or stone, you know.

        Jesus, whose words you quote, also said, “if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It would be better for you to enter life maimed, that having both hands, to be cast into hell-fire, where their worm does not die, and the fire is not quenched”.

        The most loving thing I can do in view of these realities is to warn people about this place, and urge them to repent.

        • divinepurity says:

          i think i went a bit off my topic, or at least the reason for it. I will, for sake of argument, agree with you completely, and in a lot of senses, i really do.
          i feel that, “God IS loving, but He loves with a jealous love. He won’t indefinitely tolerate being spurned and spit upon by the wickedness of men” , was well worded.

          My original concern is more about hell i guess. I do indeed feel that many should probably be punished for sins n whatnot. as many parents are finding out in this age, you cant just use positive reinforcement by itself. sometimes you do indeed need to inspire a little fear and punishment to get a point across or it simply wont sink in.
          My problem isnt that people dont need to be punished. its more that i cant wrap my mind around how any being no matter how omnipotent, who has at least even the tiniest little shred of knowing what love even may or may not possibly be, could make any other being, not matter how small and inconsequential it might be in comparison, suffer for eternity. 10 years, 100 year, hell, even 1,000,000 years of punishment would be one thing. but eternity? i really really dont think most people stop to think about what that means. i mean really think about it. I just have trouble believing that part of it. just that one little part is incomprehensible to me. if it wasn’t for that eternity part, i would be perfectly happy and merrily on my way.
          For instance, i have killed a lot of bugs in my time. ants, roaches, flies, mosquitoes. they were nothing but little annoyances to me. i thought nothing about ending their little lives because they simply inconvenienced me. However, if i thought lets say, even for a moment, that my action of stomping on them was in some way going to make the little guy suffer some sort of ETERNAL agony, i would not even think about it. no matter how small and inconsequential the little bugger was, i would be wracked with guilt and pain for the rest of my life knowing that i caused any living thing pain for eternity. And i didnt even feel love for those things in the first place. Sometimes i think god may have said it was eternal to drive a point home. like, “srsly guys, im not messing around”. But maybe its not actually that way. sort of like a parent saying “if i ever catch you doing drugs ill ground you for the rest of your life” sort of thing. Its just too much. i just have so much trouble believing the eternity part of it. maybe im rambling now, but its the one thing that really troubles me.
          Thing is, im not even concerned for myself. I know that in my heart and actions, i really try to be a good person. i help others when and how i can whenever i am able. i do pray and fear and respect god immensely. And i dont think god would send me to hell for just being concerned about one detail. And i do seek forgiveness even for that, its just i cant stop something that simply a feeling. I’m not even necessarily saying i dont believe it, but i want to understand it, because it doesnt make sense. And im not talking from a scientific, or even logical perspective. It just FEELS wrong. Its more this part that i am struggling to find an answer to, and im hoping you can help me with it. I do however thank you for insight so far, as you have provided me some already…..oh, and pls forgive the small novel i just wrote lol ๐Ÿ˜‰

          • Anurekha says:

            Dear divinepurity,

            The same thing concerns me too. I wonder why a life have to suffer for eternity working against the will of God for some years on earth? Even some people are brought up in situations where there is only violence and no one to love and tell about God. I’m sad for them. I wish God will not put the punishment for eternity to them. Afterall they are His creation.

          • JustAGuy says:

            There is much in the Bible that shows hell to be a place of destruction for sinners. I do not believe we can conclusively say there is an eternity of torment. The punishment is eternal. Dead forever.

            Blessings and Peace,

          • divinepurity says:

            I’m not sure which of those is worse. eternal pain or becoming nothing. Either way, its still like shooting your child in the head because you found them smoking cigarettes. Like, a tad bit over kill.

          • JustAGuy says:

            That sounds like an ingrateful heart. We began as nothing and only by the will of God do we exist. Sin is a lot more dangerous than ‘smoking cigarettes’. I don’t know if you have noticed, but there are a whole lot of people who decide to kill themselves after running full tilt after sin. I believe it horribly negligent to let people live a life of sin forever inflicting it upon themselves and those around them.

            The Author of Life has the right to call the shots. You can line up with His thinking and see the beauty of it, or you can argue your point and shake your finger at God until you face the unblessed consequence of it. God is so very Good, if we choose to believe Him above our own foolishness.

            Blessings and Peace,

          • Timothy:

            Explain the difference here. You stated, you can not conclusively say there is an eternity of torment but punishment is eternal? Is this what you wanted to say? You’re just flippin the sentence around.

            There is no abolishment in hell meaning “you cease to exist”. You will be alive as a soul being with thought and all senses.

            I admit, it is difficult for me to understand why God feels it’s necessary to leave human souls in hell and torment for eternity but He does. However, any other comments are welcome. It’s an ery conversation cuz I will not be there but nevertheless….


          • JustAGuy says:

            David, I appreciate your question. At the creation of man, God breathed into his nostrils the breath of life and man BECAME a living soul. You and I have no past history as a conscious soul – otherwise we would remember eternity.

            The soul that sins, it shall die, says Ezekiel 18 a couple of times. Jesus in all his speaking on hell refers to it often as a place of being burned up. Branches are cast into the fire and consumed. “the wages of sin is death.” I do not think you will find anyone other than a theologian who thinks of death as ‘separation from God’. The Bible never defined it that way. Death is death.

            The Bible speaks of the second Death following the judgment seat of Christ. God takes no delight in the wicked perishing. He is not a masocist. He created us from nothing and we can return to nothing. God’s holiness is not vindicated in eternal cries of anguish.

            There will be anguish and then the universe will be free from sin once more.

            Thanks for the question. I will answer it now. The difference between eternal punishMENT and punishING is in the existance of the one being punished. Those who suffer the second death will not ever be resurrected again. Their punishMENT is therefore eternal. If they were alive, in a state of torture, it would be eternal punishING.

            Now, David, please tell me where the Bible says “You will be alive as a soul being with thought and all senses.”?

            Blessings and Peace,

          • Read up on lazerus and the rich man.
            But there are plenty of references to man being a spirit soul and body.

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