Predestination Discussion

Thoughts for and against the idea of predestination can go here.

For the record, I do not believe that the Bible teaches that God predestines people merely on the basis of what He chooses for them. The Bible says that God predestines people according to His foreknowledge. I believe He predestines based on the kind of ways they would respond to His grace in its various forms. This is done to ensure that at least some people have a chance to be saved to the end.

What do YOU think?

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About Michael Fackerell

The Christian faith is about Jesus. He came to save the lost. About Jesus Christ, Bible teaching, Testimonies, Salvation, Prayer, Faith, Networking.

Comments

  1. Sunrise says:

    Predestine means to destine, decree, determine, appoint, or settle beforehand; specifically: predestinate.

    Predestinate means 1) to foreordain to an earthly or eternal lot or destiny by divine decree 2) archaic: Predetermine

    So, it just means to decide beforehand on what one is going to do about a particular situation. Therefore, God decided what He was going to do about fallen man. He was going to save man by means of His Son, and if they accepted him they would be saved. His Son, Jesus, fulfilled that plan. When He fulfilled that plan, He sealed the destiny of the saved. As a result of that, the saved will spend eternity with God.

  2. Sunrise says:

    This is the kind of predestination that I believe in. I have already talked about this a little bit. When man sinned, God had already decided what He would do about it before it ever happened. He would send His Son Jesus to die on the cross for the sins of mankind. Now when God did that, He predestined those, who would believe on His Son, to be saved. If Jesus had not gone through with it, no one would be predestined to be saved.

    It’s like this: God made the way. Man makes the choice. God has not predetermined what one’s choice will be. Even though God knows a person’s choice He still offers the plan of salvation to everyone. No one can say that God was not fair. Yes, I know that God is the One who does the wooing. Some will heed Him. Some won’t.

    Now I want to say this to every person out there that is not saved: If you go to hell, don’t blame it on God. You send yourself there by not believing on the Son of God. I’m not talking about knowing about Jesus. I’m talking about having a personal relationship with Him, knowing Him personally in your heart. God makes the way of salvation so simple that a little child can even understand it. My little granddaughter, at seven years of age, understood the Gospel and was saved last year. She has a heart for God. I can tell by the things that she says and writes and sings. So, any adult out there can understand the Gospel.

    Here are some other things God predestinated for the believer:

    Romans 8:29
    “… [to be] conformed to the image of his Son…”

    Ephesians 1:4, 5

    “…[to] be holy and without blame before him in love:” [Bracketed word is mine, used for clarity.]

    “…predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself…”

  3. lookinforacity says:

    I do not believe a person has a Destiny to fulfill, nor do I believe in Predestination as taught by Calvin.
    God does not Predestinate mankind into their spiritual future. (Everlasting Life or Damnation)

    For God to predestinate mankind’s spiritual future, would be contrary to His own words.

    Gen. 1:28
    And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.

    The words of God declare that mankind was endowed by God Himself, to have dominion over the whole earth and everything in it.
    To then Predestinate him to a future, would then alter his decisions, once he had reached the point of the fulfilling of that Predestination on his life, which would then be based upon his new found beliefs, thus changing the course of mankind because of Gods’ intervention, meaning mankind did not ever have dominion at all.

    Mankind is not born with a Predetermined future by God, any more than a person who is born again, has a Predetermined future for God.

    JIM

  4. lookinforacity says:

    Not defending Predestination, because an incorrect Doctrine cannot be defended, and the Truth doesn’t need to be defended.

    I would just like an answer to some simple questions though, just to put things into perspective.

    Concerning Free will, Choice?

    Out of all the people which were born up unto the time of the Flood, how many were saved, as opposed to how many died in the flood?
    (8.)

    Out of all the people alive in the cities of Sodom, and Gomorrah, how many were saved before the destruction of these cities took place?
    (3)

    Out of both of these events, there were a total of 11 people, I doubt that, that number is even 0.01% of the total.

    Why wasn’t there more people, if they all had the same freedom of choice, as the 11 did?

    WHY?

    JIM

    • Sunrise says:

      You asked a good question. The only answer I have for the moment is the following verse: “For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened.” (Romans 1:21) They choose to do this to their own detriment. Unfortunately, their choice not only affected them, but any descendants they may have had. I’m glad that I had godly parents who helped me to know the Lord. It is the best gift any parent can give his or her children.

    • michael says:

      You ask why only 11 out of the total population chose salvation, if everyone has free will.

      The Bible says that Noah was "perfect in his generations". I believe that by the time of Noah, much of the population was genetically corrupted. Genesis 6 talks about the intercourse between fallen angels and women on earth, and the offspring produced. I believe these offspring were not capable of righteousness, because they had demonic seed in their DNA.

      This of course is argued for and against, and I don't really care for a major debate on this subject.

      People have freedom of choice, but this doesn't mean that people are equally inclined to go either way.

      In the absence of the moving of God's Spirit, people are not going to be saved.

      Its not a one dimensional thing. God's Kingdom grows as people pray and intercede. This can bring the Holy Spirit's grace onto the scene, and somehow more people get saved.

      We know that Noah preached to people. I'm not sure what percentage of the total population he managed to preach to. But there is no record of Noah interceding for people, as far as I can see.

      • lookinforacity says:

        Michael

        I’m not going to argue the point, just felt it necessary to bring it to the attention of others, there were only 11 people saved from death and hell, out of a total of untold thousands.
        I will write a Blog on the subject if anybody would want to comment. “God Chooses”

        JIM

  5. Sunrise says:

    I have just gotten in on the tail end of this conversation about predestination. How did Jesus predestine people to be saved? He did it by coming to earth and dying on the cross for our sins. Otherwise, no one would be saved. Jesus predetermined that those who would believe on Him would be saved.

    Even though God knows beforehand who will be saved and who won’t be saved, He still gives everybody a choice as to whether they will accept Jesus or not. That is the goodness of God. If He had just predestined certain people to be saved, then the word “whosoever” would have to be taken out of John 3:16. God always offers His salvation to those who will believe and those who won’t believe. He is a fair God.

  6. Many people especially Christians question this topic but the Lord expressly said that unless you are led by the Holy Spirit you cannot do anything of your own accord. If He had predestined you to be saved at a certain time then no matter what happens that would take place for He is Sovereign. To be in this category is indeed a great blessing for your eternal destination is then assured for it means that your name once written in the Lamb’s Book of Life would never be erased.

    • michael says:

      The Lord never said "unless you are led by the Holy Spirit you cannot do anything of your own accord". Where is anything even remotely LIKE that stated in the Bible? John 6 certainly doesn't say it. It just says that no one comes to Me unless the Father draws Him. Which means that we can't get saved without God's drawing.

      God is Sovereign, but in His Sovereignty He decided NOT to be a total control freak. He actually decided to make it interesting by giving people the capacity to make independent choices! It is good to know that God has not used His Sovereignty to MAKE people child abusers, rapists, murderers and rejecters of the gospel. People corrupt themselves according to the Bible and get themselves into a place where they CANNOT save themselves. They need to be saved by God. But if God forced people to be saved, and forced them to stay saved, there was absolutely no point in giving mankind a "choice" in the first place, and all we could say about God is that He is the author of a sadistic 3 dimensional video in which many of the characters have the illusion that they really have a choice in what they are going to do next.

      If there is no REAL choice, but God makes the choices for us by putting us in a deterministic system which allows no other options than what actually happens, then LOVE is a sham and the whole Universe has become the playground of a Sadist of infinite proportions.

       

       

      • Evangelist-7 says:

        I believe He predestines based on the kind of ways they would respond to His grace in its various forms. This is done to ensure that at least some people have a chance to be saved to the end.

        I agree with Michael above, but I haven’t found many who do.
        IMO, the actual “elect” are chosen because God knows the end from the beginning … He knows they will co-operate with being sanctified unto holiness and finally be overcomers (Rev 2-3).
        IMO, some people who are born-again are not part of the elect.

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