Is it shame or fear or wisdom to keep away from those who try and persecute you?

Nicodemus the Jewish Rabbi and member of the Sanhedrin has been criticized for coming to Jesus at night, but what about the disciples hiding in fear at night after the Lord Jesus was crucified as we read in John 20:19 Then the same day at evening, being the first day of the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled for fear of the Jews, came Jesus and stood in the midst, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.

Was it shame or fear or wisdom to keep away from those who persecute and want to kill you? Didn’t Jesus slip away from those who wanted to stone Him?
I love what the Lord Jesus shares with Nicodemus, who like many had some serious issue understanding the new birth in Christ with the old birth. The old birth is coming into existence as you are first born and the new birth is being adopted into God’s family. Here is what Jesus shared with Nicodemus, and now with us.

John 3:12 If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?
13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.
14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

I have met a number of people who tell me they believe in God and in Jesus Christ. However they do not appear to be living their life as if this made much difference to them. James 2:19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. Joining the family of God means becoming a Christian, and that means you must follow after Christ. Its more then just making a verbal statement and signing some commitment card, its living every moment from your heart for the Lord Jesus, as if your very life is dependent on it. Matthew 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

Let me just leave you with this to consider and mediate on.

1 John 4:7 Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God.
8 He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.
9 In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him.
10 Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.
In His love
Pastor Caspar
(c) 2012 Caspar McCloud Ministries Inc

What do YOU think?

comments

Comments

  1. lookinforacity says:

    .

    When you make this statement,
    “Thank you for being in agreement with authorities who are not truly concerned for ‘public safety’ ”

    Are you speaking in general about all authorities such as.
    The Zoning board, City councils, Mayors, Governors, Congressmen, Senators, President

    If being so distrustful of public officials, why then vote for them, only because they say they are Christians?
    In the Presidental election, will the Mormon get your vote, or the Incumbent, seeing he has done such a gooooood job with his appointing Elena Kagan an openly Lesbian woman to become a Suprime Court Justice, or his endorsement of Gay marriage.

    • Timothy Luke says:

      specifically the local authorities of this case, whose true concerns in this instance are not public safety, but rather the implementation of rules at the expense of the promotion of the Gospel of Jesus Christ, which is truly able to save from a much more enduring fire of judgment. This is the true safety of the public they should have in mind, if we are in deed, ‘one nation under God.’
      Sometimes you vote FOR someone, more often than not, our responsibility lies in voting AGAINST someone. Which person do you think represents a better (not ideal) choice for the furtherance of religious liberty in the U.S.?

      • lookinforacity says:

        TIM
        Honestly, take a good look at our Country, can you honestly say “We are one Nation Under God”

        You ask the question
        “Which person do you think represents a better (not ideal) choice for the furtherance of religious liberty in the U.S.?”

        My answer
        “Neither one”

        Notice in the scripture it says

        Rom 13:1
        Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.

        God ordains power, authority, He gives it to whom “He Wills” Her makes Kings, or Presidents to rise or fall, to further His purpose in the earth.
        Show me one scripture where it even alludes to us as having a responsibility to vote.

        Jesus is LORD, KING God is supreme, if we walk in His Kingdom He is the ruler we should follow not a man, if we did He would then insure that our Govt. operated properly.

        My Question to you is “GOD” or “MAMMON”?

        • Timothy Luke says:

          I did not intend for this to take away from Pastor Caspar’s point. To which my simple reply is. Sometimes the fear of God and the will of God will require us to stand in the face of persecution, despite “wisdom” and our fears. Other times they will lead us out of harm’s way….

          For anyone interested in this case, the Rutherford Institute has a fact sheet that details the charges, and the basis for those charges, along with what the Salman family is being faced with. Keep them in prayer. Pray for our nation. We need to repent and return to God, or our judgment is sealed.

          FACT SHEET:
          https://www.rutherford.org/files_images/general/07-17-2012_Salman_Fact_Sheet.pdf

  2. lookinforacity says:

    .

    I am reposting this responce to Pastor caspar from yesterday, so it would not get lost among the other garbage

    You say
    “The old birth is coming into existence as you are first born and the new birth is being adopted into God’s family.”

    Although what you say is true, we are adopted into Gods’ family, but isn’t it really a question of becoming Born Again as Jesus told Nicodemus, you must be Born Again, he was not speaking of adoption although this does happen, His (Jesus’) objective was to get Nicodemus to understand the New Birth was necessary.
    That becoming a New Creature was of paramount importance.

    Joh 3:3-7
    3) Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
    4) Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother’s womb, and be born?
    5) Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
    6) That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
    7) Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

    2Co. 5:17
    Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a (NEW CREATURE): old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

    Gal. 6:15
    For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a (NEW CREATURE)

    Let me just leave you with this to consider and mediate on.
    Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
    Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
    That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
    Ye must be born again

    As far as your intro,
    “Is it shame or fear or wisdom to keep away from those who try and persecute you?’

    I did not see anything you wrote, that had anything to do with your question.

  3. lookinforacity says:

    .

    Like I said
    “The law allows for functions like party’s, weddings, where more than 50 people might be in attendance but it does not allow for a meeting to take place in the same residence every week for 7 yrs.”

    If this Bible study is at the same house every week, then that building constitutes a Church, and is thereby subject to the laws governing Church buildings.

    If this is a Bible Study held at the pastors house every week, when and where then, are the weekly Sunday services held?
    It sounds more like a Pastor of 15 -20 people, calls a meeting at his home once a week a Bible Study instead of calling it a weekly worship service, in order to get around the laws governing such things.

    You say
    “The local authorities have latitude to define these meetings as they will. To define them as a public hazard and risk, is simply a means to discourage home fellowships”

    “OH” I get it now, it is all a conspiracy, to harass Christians.

    At this point, I think it would be advisable to follow the case, see what the outcome is, then whether or not, Pastor Salman pursues his belief that the laws are unconstitutional.
    Lift him up in prayer, send him money for his defense fund, or to pay his fines, stand with a brother if he is right.

    Think about it, a Pastor has a meeting at his house for 2 yrs. then out of the blue, he is notified by the city he was in violation of the code.
    It sounds like he is splitting legalistic hairs, because he doesn’t want his property to be rezoned because his taxes would go up for a commercial property, and he would lose his homestead exemption.
    He is claming, the law is unconstitutional, not that it is discrimination as you are.

    As far as I am concerned, he has 3 options.
    1) Fight it in court and prove his case.
    2) Comply with the laws and get rezoned
    3) Do like he quotes “and broke bread from house to house” Acts 2 :46
    Spread the meetings around, then they would fall under the code which is allowed.
    Having a gathering at your house every 15-20 weeks, the city would not only have any case to prosecute, they would be hard pressed to know the meetings were taking place to begin with.

    • Timothy Luke says:

      From the article I referred to… “Phoenix that Bible studies and other church-like activities are not permitted in a residence unless the property is converted to an A3 occupancy, which allows commercial and public use. Michael Salmon argued his case pointing out that their gatherings are not opened to the public. Just like in the Bible, gatherings were among believers who knew one another. It was part of body life. With only 15-20 people meeting, Salmon argued that the code was unconstitutional. They tried to take steps to meet the requirements, but did not want to become a commercial entity.”
      It is in society’s best interest to encourage, not discourage, Christian fellowship. The shutting down of this gathering is said by the prosecutor to come down to “zoning and proper permitting. Anytime you are holding a gathering of people continuously as he does, we have concerns about people being able to exit the facility properly in case there is a fire.”
      So, should a pastor stop holding services in his home because a city is “Concerned” about a fire hazard that in all probability does not exist because the man made modifications to address concerns, or, should the city insist on a zoning issue and stop a church from meeting based on legalistic standards?
      The pastor here turned himself in. He is making a statement while subjecting himself to the authorities penalties for noncompliance. I have a mobile home that can handle the traffic he had…..Were this legalism in the church, I think we would condemn it. When it is legalism in the state, we appear to have complete understanding of their concerns… now I’m concerned :-)!

      • lookinforacity says:

        Since 2005 this Pastor has had the opportunity to
        1) Comply with the law
        2) Have the Law changed

        But he has chosen to force the issue, he has had 6 yrs. to resolve the problem.
        Why would someone that calls himself Pastor, not want his Church to grow, why keep it at 15-20 people, why not open his church to the public?
        The gatherings in the Bible, were open to new converts
        What’s to hide his candle?

        Move the meetings around, no harm no foul.

        If God is for him who can be against him, no weapon formed against him shall prosper, those that curse him shall be cursed, there’s more than one way to skin a cat.

        You say
        “It is in society’s best interest to encourage, not discourage, Christian fellowship”

        What you say is true, but this Pastor is not opening his meetings to society is he!

        You say
        “When it is legalism in the state, we appear to have complete understanding of their concerns.”

        The State is concerned with nothing but Legalism (LAW) they are not concerned with Morals or Religion, that is exactly why The State, can in good conscious pass laws concerning Homosexual marriage, because of the Civil Rights Amendment, we as a society cannot discriminate against a minority.

        Mat. 6:24
        No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.

        Mammon is The world system, The world order, Society, Mammon is diametrically opposed to God, and to the ordinances of God,
        Mammon is concerned with the FLESH, and we are the Children of the SPIRIT, being contrary one to the other.

        Don’t expect a Moral justice from the State, the only thing they understand is LAW, therefore the only way to defeat them is by the Law.

        Mat. 10:16
        Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves.

        Luk. 16:8
        And the lord commended the unjust steward, because he had done wisely: for the children of this world are in their generation wiser than the children of light.

        Rom 13:1-7
        1) Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.

        2) (WHOSOEVER THEREFORE RESISTETH THE POWER, RESISTETH THE ORDANANCES OF GOD: AND THEY THAT RESIST SHALL RECEIVE TO THEMSELVES DAMNATION)

        3) For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same:
        4) For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.
        5) Wherefore ye must needs be subject, not only for wrath, but also for conscience sake.
        6) For for this cause pay ye tribute also: for they are God’s ministers, attending continually upon this very thing.
        7) Render therefore to all their dues: tribute to whom tribute is due; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honour to whom honour.

  4. lookinforacity says:

    .

    To say in the article that Pastor Salman lives on 4 1/2 acres, makes it sound as though he has a lot of room and this is nothing more than persecution.
    But if in fact Pastor Salman was holding these meetings inside of his home, then that is completely different matter.
    The law allows for functions like party’s, weddings, where more than 50 people might be in attendance but it does not allow for a meeting to take place in the same residence every week for 7 yrs.
    Like it or not his house has in essence become, the Church Building he is so intently set against having.
    He should comply with the law, to insure the safety of his Parishioners.

    It says in the article,
    “The Salmans have been gathering in the home since 2005, but in 2007 they did receive a notice from the City of Phoenix that Bible studies and other church-like activities are not permitted in a residence unless the property is converted to an A3 occupancy, which allows commercial and public use.”

    Salman said
    “With only 15-20 people meeting, Salmon argued that the code was unconstitutional. They tried to take steps to meet the requirements, but did not want to become a commercial entity.”

    If he thought it was unconstitutional, then he should have hired a lawyer, filed a suit, and taken it to court.
    Why would he willingly attempt to comply with a law he felt was unconstitutional to start with.

    Tit. 3:1
    Put them in mind to be subject to principalities and powers, to obey magistrates, to be ready to every good work,

    Rom.13:3
    For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same:

    If Pastor Salman set up a tent, a pavilion, or if they just sat under the trees, and this happened, then it could be said, he was being persecuted for Righteousness sake, but even if it did happen that way.

    Mat 5:10-12
    10) Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness’ sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
    11) Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.
    12) Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you.

    Count it all as Joy

    It must be understood, Pastor Salmon was not “was not” arrested-for-holding-home-bible-study, but for not complying with the law and the safety codes of that area.

    • Timothy Luke says:

      Thank you for being in agreement with authorities who are not truly concerned for ‘public safety’ Are you telling me that if you have 20 people over to watch the Super Bowl, you are endangering the public even one time??? The local authorities have latitude to define these meetings as they will. To define them as a public hazard and risk, is simply a means to discourage home fellowships… I am sure home owners insurance will cover any incidents that are normally covered when a person has guests over. This is a private gathering, and we are not talking more than a handful of cars that have ample parking space. Also, they did make ‘improvements’ to accommodate the fellowship. One would think that if the place was a hazard, those attending would look elsewhere.
      PS – The spiritual loss of fellowship is much more injurious than whatever they are afraid of….

  5. Timothy Luke says:

    Interesting topic Caspar. It is getting closer to home for us in the U.S. now. There is a Pastor reported to be in prison for holding Bible Studies in his home in Phoenix, Arizona.
    “When you hear of a pastor being arrested for holding a Bible study in his home what’s the first thing that comes to mind? Must be someplace like Iran where Christians are persecuted, right? Not this time. It happened right here in the good old U.S.A.” http://www.examiner.com/article/pastor-arrested-for-holding-home-bible-study
    Sometimes the fear of God and the will of God will require us to stand in the face of persecution, despite “wisdom” and our fears. Other times they will lead us out of harm’s way….

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