Baptisms
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Comments
Head Knowledge
To Justaguy
Well I am not trying to be an intellectual for that is self defeating as far as the spiritual matter of scripture are concerned. One who sees himself as wise should see himself as ignorant when it come to understanding the word of God.
You refer to Acts 2:37-41 and Romans 6:3-4 . Let us look at these verses closely.
First Act 2:37.
Act 2:37-38 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do? Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
The first question begs the question of; who is he talking to ? Secondly, for what period of time was this ?
As to who Peter was talking to: Men and brethren; hence the men at Jerusalem and those of his Jewish brothers in faith.
What was the time of this ?
Act 2:1 And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.
Pentecost, a Jewish law pertaining to the forgiveness of adepts every 50 years. See the Old Testament.
So Peter is talking to the Jews at that time, not the Gentile world at large. That the Gentiles were not ment for this baptism is seen in Acts 28:25-29.
Act 28:25 And when they agreed not among themselves, they departed, after that Paul had spoken one word, Well spake the Holy Ghost by Esaias the prophet unto our fathers,
Act 28:26-29 Saying, Go unto this people, and say, Hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and not perceive: For the heart of this people is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them. Be it known therefore unto you, that the salvation of God is sent unto the Gentiles, and that they will hear it. And when he had said these words, the Jews departed, and had great reasoning among themselves.
John the baptist water baptized for the remission of the sins of the people of Judah. Jesus died for the remission of all men's sins on the cross ! John came preaching the kingdom of heaven doctrine. Jesus finished His ministry preaching the kingdom of God doctrine.
Here then we see that Israel is now set aside ( low omni) and the Gentile world is to be offered salvation by Paul through Jesus Christ New Testament.
I hope this helps you to see how God's plan has different dispensational periods for different purposes.
Blessings In The Christ
DeepSeeker
More On Baptism
The problem with water baptism verses is that spiritual baptism in Christ Jesus exactly that; believers today who are of the elect of God are baptized into His spiritual body as Paul states.
Mat 3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:
Here is a figuretive statement. Fire is the word of God that burns inside men's minds. Water is the word of God.
Figures of speech and idioms of speech should not be ignored by the Bible student !
The big problem comes from trying to mix what was given to physical Israel with that which was given to those in the Body of Christ. The two don't stand together except when men try to force them to.
It was not until after Acts 28 that Paul was sent to the Gentiles by Christ Jesus; not Jesus, to go and preach the New Testament to the Gentile world at large. This New Testament did not include water baptism; for Jesus had fulfilled are that was required on the cross. "It is finished"; He said.
The question is then; what was finished? The end of the prophets to physical Israel had come to the end and with it the Old Testament and the things of the Law. Afer John was put in prison Jesus began to preach the kingdom of God, not the Old Testament kingdom of heaven.
I understand very well how men hate to give up that which they have held close for so long. I do not have all the answers; and I have only that which by the Grace of God has been given to me. I simply desire to try and show others what I have been given. They rejected Jesus and most will certainly reject what I say as well. However; if the Lord be willing I will continue to try and help my brothers and sisters to "Rightly divide the word of truth." " Comparing the spiritual with the spiritual " .
DeepSeeker
Water Bapism
WATER BAPTISM
I have read the postings on the baptism topic. As I read them I saw that there was a mix of almost everything ! Some say you must be water baptized for Jesus said to do this. Others say it's just a good thing to show you are saved. Some say you are not saved until you are baptized. WOW ! Which one should you chose ?
You should chose the one that the Spirit of God says to use according to His word. Which one is this ? This is where the lack of study comes into play. See our Blog on this ( DeepSeeker) .
First, this subject is one that requires much study and right division of the word of God. It is not a simple thing to understand with out the Spirit's help and true desire to know and understand the truth of His word. !One must put aside denomination teachings in favor of the teaching of the Spirit Jesus Christ.
It really hurts to see so many so mixed on this and other topics of the Bible. We are writing this paper to help others come to see how to rightly divide the word of truth as Paul said.
Paul says to rightly divide the word of truth by comparing the spiritual with the spiritual.
1Co 2:13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
2Ti 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
By not obeying these two verses men have generated numerous views on many subjects in the Bible, not just water baptism. First we ask this question; for whom was this baptism given to ? Second, for what purpose was this baptism ? Thirdly, for what kingdom was it for ?
Mat 3:1 In those days came John the Baptist, preaching in the wilderness of Judaea, And saying, Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand. For this is he that was spoken of by the prophet Esaias, saying, The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight. The wilderness is the spiritually barren Israel.
Notice that this baptism that John was doing goes back to the early part of the Old Testament; therefore
it was for Israel and not for everyone ! If you are willing to accept part of this then you have to accept
all that goes with it !
What was it's purpose ? Two fold; to prepare for the kingdom of heaven which the Jesus was about to offer to Israel and to fulfill the prophecy of Isaiah. This, too, points to dealings with Israel; that is, the
physical Israel.
Mat 3:6 And were baptized of him in Jordan, confessing their sins.
This water baptism was connected with the forgiveness of their sins. What is it today that makes sins forgivable ? Is it water baptism or is it the death of Christ Jesus on the cross ?
Mat 15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
Now if Jesus came unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel are we included in that ? Hardly; for it that was true then He would not have sent Paul to the Gentile world to preach to them His gospel.
Act 9:15 -16 But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel: For I will shew him how great things he must suffer for my name's sake.
Now consider this; if Paul was sent to the Gentiles after the crucifixion of Jesus, then there are two different programs at work here. One for physical Israel and one for the Gentles. This then splits the two doctrines into two different parts for different reasons . This is the first step in rightly dividing the word of truth. The next question is then; are the two programs the same for all times or different for different times ?
A part of the two come together in the Gospels, but the conclusion does not . We are talking here of the part where Israel rejects Jesus as their Messiah and so the kingdom of heaven is rejected with that rejection . The second part starts in the Gospels which are really the last part of the Old Testament ! This is so because of the statement of Jesus coming unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel and them rejecting Him as a nation. Notice what happens next.
Mar 1:14 Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God.
Now the kingdom of God has replaced the kingdom of heaven which was to be Israel new kingdom that they rejected along with the Messiah. So Jesus now starts to present the doctrine of the kingdom of God to them instead. It would require a book to cover all the details but here we are limited to a short Blog. Remember, for the kingdom of heaven water baptism was offered for the remittance of their sins.
Now under the kingdom of God a new thing occurs.
Mat 12:28 But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you.
The kingdom of God then gives power unto Jesus to subdue the kingdoms of the evil forces and offer to men the opportunities to become save spiritually and not by water baptism .
Joh 3:2 The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him.
Joh 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
Joh 3:4-8 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's
womb, and be born? Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.
Now look at what Jesus says to Nicodemus: Except a man be born of the water and of the Spirit he can not enter into the kingdom of God . This water is the water that occurs at child birth when a women's water gushes from the womb. After that comes the human form which must be born again of the Spirit; for it is in a corrupted spiritual state . Nicodemus was a teacher in Israel and did not understand these things, just as many today who are teachers and preachers do not understand it.
Now consider what else Paul says about water baptism.
1Co 1:13-16 Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul? I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius; Lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name. And I baptized also the household of Stephanas: besides, I know not whether I baptized any other.
Paul, an appointed apostle of Jesus Christ says he is glad he baptized no others than these. Paul's early ministry was to Israel also; then later to the Gentiles at large . It was after his first ministry to the Jews that he ceased to water baptize . Why is that ? Because of this.
Eph 4:3-6 Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace. There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; One Lord, one faith, one baptism, One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
There is one body, one baptism and One Spirit even as you are called in one hope of your calling.
1Co 12:13-14 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. For the body is not one member, but many.
Eph 2:12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
Eph 2:13-16 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ. For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us; Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace; And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:
Gal 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
So it may be seen that water baptism was for Israel and not for all . Some may yet ask: what then about going into the world baptizing in the name of the Father and Son and Spirit ? To this we ask this question. Who went to where for what purpose in the verse in question ? For what time was it give for ? Was it before Paul's ministry to the Gentiles ?
We leave the serious student of the word of God with this.
Blessings in The Christ
DeepSeeker
Re: Water Baptism
I am not seeking to be rude, but I get the impression you used a lot of scriptures and logic to reason your way around a few basic, profound scriptures that are more direct in their opposition to your conclusion.
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call. And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation. Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.
If we are baptized into one baptism, why would a different baptism be required for those of the house of Israel?
What does Paul tell the gentiles in Rome about baptism?
We see burial is pictured in this baptism. Water baptism is to submerge a person under water, just as a dead body is laid to rest under the earth. This ritual of the Church has meaning to God. It should have the same meaning to us. We cannot picture our own death and resurrection to new life by visualizing nearly as well as we can by visualizing it as we walk through this physical type, which makes it a much more tangible and memorable event in our lives.
Philip was translated specifically so that he might physically take a gentile to a body of water and baptize him.
Then the Spirit said unto Philip, Go near, and join thyself to this chariot.
And Philip ran thither to him, and heard him read the prophet Esaias, and said, Understandest thou what thou readest? And he said, How can I, except some man should guide me? And he desired Philip that he would come up and sit with him.
The place of the scripture which he read was this, He was led as a sheep to the slaughter; and like a lamb dumb before his shearer, so opened he not his mouth: In his humiliation his judgment was taken away: and who shall declare his generation? for his life is taken from the earth. And the eunuch answered Philip, and said, I pray thee, of whom speaketh the prophet this? of himself, or of some other man? Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus.
And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized? And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.
If we can reason around things as plainly written as this, why did God write them? Scripture cautions us about looking for God in far away places. He is very near and His Word is very clear to those who simply believe.
Blessings and Peace,
Timothy
Baptism
My faith in the Lord Jesus Christ has recently been restored, and I am looking to be baptised in April this year. My understanding of 'baptism' means that by being fully emersed in water signifies not only as my belief in Christ as our Saviour and Lord, but a sign of a new beginning. A sign that I am ready to walk with God and to serve and belong to him.
I would welcome some prayer and guidance with my journey to be with God. Thank you and may God Bless you.
Marysia