Did God make you and I as sinners? – comment board

I read the article you had up, and saw there was no section for comments, so I thought I’d set one up.

“Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.”
Psalm 51:5

Can a child that has stolen from his mother’s purse, without knowing it was wrong go to heaven if he was to die right after he did it?

What do YOU think?

comments

Comments

  1. alethesia dipsos says:

    When children (born as they are into sin) die, do they go to heaven if not “saved”?
    Said differently, is there an age of accountability?
    Biblically, there is nothing I have found that conclusively states one way or the other.
    There are some indications, but that is all (that I’ve found) such indications as:
    Matthew 19:14 “jesus said, “Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these”
    If the kingdom of heaven belongs to those such as children, why would they be condemned?

    Also there is David’s belief –
    He apparently believed that his dead son would be in heaven.
    2 Samuel 12:19-23
    “But when David saw that his servants were whispering together, David perceived that the child was dead; so David said to his servants, “Is the child dead?” And they said, “He is dead.”
    So David arose from the ground, washed, anointed himself, and changed his clothes; and he came into the house of the LORD and worshiped. Then he came to his own house, and when he requested, they set food before him and he ate.
    Then his servants said to him, “What is this thing that you have done? While the child was alive, you fasted and wept; but when the child died, you arose and ate food.”
    He said, “While the child was still alive, I fasted and wept; for I said, Who knows, the LORD may be gracious to me, that the child may live.’
    “But now he has died; why should I fast? Can I bring him back again? I will go to him, but he will not return to me.”
    This passage may simply be accurately recording David’s erroneous belief in his sons eternal destination, it may reflect what David knew to be true in THIS instance or it may be a glimpse of what we should expect to see when we get there.
    These questions do have value and a purpose, I believe but another spoke wisely about the more important applications of the commands clearly layed out for us. I ponder the passage in Acts chapter 1, verses 9-11,
    “After He said this, He was taken up before their very eyes, and a cloud hid Him from their sight. They were looking intently up into the sky as He was going, when suddenly two men dressed in white stood beside them. “Men of Galilee”, they said, “why do you stand here looking into the sky? This same Jesus, who has been taken from you into heaven, will come back in the same way you have seen Him go into heaven”
    I for one don’t want to be caught staring into the sky, I want to be found working!
    God bless!

  2. Freak4Jesus15 says:

    to answer your question Jesse, I think he did make us as sinners and all we have to do is come to Jesus and that sin we were born with leaves us. Well that is just a thought

  3. jesseedavis says:

    I truly cannot stand most protestant theology. In fact, I really do not like theology, period. It is an excuse to get out of doing what the Bible says. I know, I’m still trying to climb out of it.

    However, I will say that Christians throughout history didn’t get EVERYTHING wrong. There are many points that are right, or at least somewhat right.

    An important thing to remember is that those Christians that most people talk about when it comes to theology, such as D. L. Moody, Charles Spurgeon, etc. were not about the “I believes” so much as they were about the “This is what I do…” or more likely “This is how to be saved…” They were obedient, that is why they were used, not because they were scholars. The same is and will always be true of us.

  4. Freak4Jesus15 says:

    God made adam and eve perfect. but when they ate from the tree, then they basically poisoned the whole world with sin. When this so called boy steals from his mothers purse he is sinning and if he didnt repent and belive in christ as his personal lord and savior then he is basically doomed to the burning lake of fire

    • I’m not sure of the answer on that…but this is the kind of generation we are living in: Today at work someone told me of a 3 year old boy who is standing trial for murder…
      three years old???? Murder??????? What on god’s green earth is going on here???

      These kind of things just totally blow my mind out of the water folks…
      You can’t wrap your mind around it..it is just beyond anything you can even imagine

      • jesseedavis says:

        Sorry didn’t mean to post twice.

      • jesseedavis says:

        What is even scarier about this is the fact that no one has to teach these kids to do these things. They do it naturally.

        In the article it is stated, “What does the apostle Paul say about his experience. Listen to Romans 7:9
        “I was alive once without the law, but when the commandment came, sin revived and I died”.
        How could Paul say that he was once alive without the law, and then he died. ”

        When I read this, I noticed the context shows that he was dead in his sins even before “the commandment came.”

        7What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
        8But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.
        Romans 7:7-8

        If you look carefully at these two verses, you will see that it does not say that sin was NOT there. It merely says that he did not know sin, therefore he was not dead in sin. Take for example a new believer. If a mature believer looked at a new believer he would most likely see all sorts of sin. However, the new believer most likely DOES NOT. This does not mean that when he cursed at someone, he did not sin. It just means that when he cursed, he did not yet know it was sin. Therefore, he was not convicted or condemned. It is only until the “commandment” comes that he can possibly know it is sin.

        Many things were carried over from before my conversion, but when I did them, I was not convicted and usually I paid no attention to them. However, it wasn’t until I read something in the Bible, or heard from someone about it that I was convicted and compelled to forsake it. So the fact is sin does not just appear when we first learn about it.

        When I look at the context of some other Scripture that was quoted, I see that what you implied does not line up with it’s context.

        3Know ye that the LORD he is God: it is he that hath made us, and not we ourselves; we are his people, and the sheep of his pasture.
        Psalm 100:3

        If we look at this closely it is talking about the nations as a whole, not necessarily each individual person. The first verse states “Make a joyful noise unto the LORD, all ye lands.”

        Ecclesiastes 7:29 does not mean that man is made without sin. Just as him describing people as “the wise” and people that “pleaseth God,” does not mean that they are not foolish or sinful.

        Realize that when God makes a child, he makes the child unperfect, he makes him corruptible. Just because a child is ignorant of sin and therefore has innocence of sin, does not mean that sin is not present. If I died right now, I would probably find out about many things I currently do that is sin in the eyes of God, however I am currently not aware of them being sin. This thought scares me, but it remains true. That is why someone can come up to me at times and point things out about me, it is because I do not know myself as He does.

  5. jesseedavis says:

    I thought that the article was really well put.
    Michael, when you evangelize to people, what do you do about getting them to a church? Do you send them to a certain church, do you start a church and set them up there? I don’t know what to do when it comes to a new believer and with the error of denominations and the theology that goes with each of them.

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