666,What does this number signify and how do we recieve it

It is of paramount importance for us Christians to perfectly understand this number because the Bible categorically states that anyone that receives this number shall partake in Gods wrath(Rev 14:9-10)
God is Spirit
God is spirit and we are flesh so we cannot understand what he says without his guidance(John 4:24).
In order to better understand this number we have to stop using our logic to decipher it and let Gods spirit reveal it to us.If You notice in Rev 13:18 The bible says:”Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast.”That means he that doesn’t have understanding(and this understanding comes from God)cannot understand this number. 2 Corinthians 3:6 says
Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.Romans 7:6 also says :”But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.”

These verses are trying to tell us that in order to understand Gods words perfectly we need to have a spiritual understanding of them and not a logical understanding.The Jews used logical understanding to try to interpret Elijah’s prophesied return and that was why they didn’t recognize him when he came(Mark 9:13 But I say unto you, That Elias is indeed come, and they have done unto him whatsoever they listed, as it is written of him.)

-John 7: 27:”Howbeit we know this man whence he is: but when Christ cometh, no man knoweth whence he is”.

The Jews also didnt recognize Jesus as the Messiah because they tried to interpret his coming based on logic and till date judaists still expect the messiah(John 5:43:”I am come in my Father’s name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive. “(Notice it says come in his own name.The beast doesnt bear Gods name but its own name (rev13:17) So they await the man with the ” beast image” not Gods image)

Understanding what the number means:
In order for us to have a proper understanding of This number we need to be spiritual. God didn’t make us to have a physical and carnal understanding, Mans fall did.
God always speaks in spiritual terms as we see in 1 sam 16: 7 “But the LORD said unto Samuel, Look not on his countenance, or on the height of his stature; because I have refused him: for the LORD seeth not as man seeth; for man looketh on the outward appearance, but the LORD looketh on the heart”.Man is more interested in the outer meaning and appearance of things.God is more interested in the inner meaning and appearance of things

What does the number of the beast mean:
Notice that the bible says in rev 13:18 that ‘ it is the number of a man’; This means that the number 666 is a number borne by man(not a single man but carnal humanity in general).Lets look carefully at the places that the number 6 and 666 occur in the bible to have a better understanding of what the number means

-If You read Genesis chapter one You will realize that man was created on the 6th day and on that 6th day he was given dominion over Gods creation so 6 is the number of Man in control.
-God commanded man to work for 6 days and rest on the 7th day in the book of exodus so 6 is the number of mans works and 7 the number of Gods rest resting from the rebellious works of our hands and submitting to God.

Now if 6 is the number of man who governs and 7 is the man submitted to God and doing Gods works(in his rest read Hebrews 4) it means man is incomplete without Gods spirit living in him(col 2:10: And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power)We are only complete in God so 6 is the number of an incomplete man.
Hence if man is in control of his life (1st 6), it means he hasnt submitted to God and is rebellious(2nd 6)and is therefore incomplete and doesn’t bear Gods image(3rd 6)

666 Is the number of beasts name:
Lets take notice of the fact that the Bible calls the mark of the beast ‘the number of his name'(rev 13:17).For us to properly understand this,We have to understand what a name represents.
What is a name:
A name is like an identification something unique that we identify someone with.Parents usually name their children as a means of identification.
To understand what a name means in light of the Bible light let us read rev 14:1 :”And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father’s name written in their foreheads.”
The Bible says here that the Lambs (Jesus)fathers names was written on the foreheads of the saints(The forehead isnt the physical forehead it is the mind)What does this mean.Having Gods name written in their mind means they were identified with him they thought like him they bore his image.and just like a father ‘names’ a child God gives his children an identity, an image.The adoption of a new name and hence a new identity is also illustrated in marriage,When a man gets married to a woman the woman shares the same last name with him.This shows the oneness they both share they both become one body and soul and she loses her former identity in him.

The beast name therefore means its image, its mind. If the number of its name is 666 and 666 means man in control,unsubmissive,rebellious and incomplete it goes to show You what the beast represents, It is a godless unsubmissive and rebellious civilization that seeks to make humanity think like it and bear its image. Anyone who refuses to bear its image and conform to it is destroyed (rev 13:15-17And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.
And he causeth all(Global requirement), both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads, And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name)
Here You see that anyone who doesn’t accept this name is destroyed.

Symbolism of the right hand and forehead:
I have explained to You what the forehead means spiritually.I said it means the mind.It symbolizes the mind, thought-life and philosophy of a person.
In order to understand what the right hand means lets check the bible for verses with “right hand” Psalm 110:1:”The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at “My” right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool”. The right hand here means the place of authority,the place of rule.It indicates Gods deeds and actions.It symbolizes the power and authority Jesus has to do Gods will on earth.Notice Jesus sits at his “Fathers” right hand.This shows that he submits to his fathers Authority and hence is empowered to do his Fathers will.Meanwhile,The second beast requires that humanity recieve the “mark”in “their” right hand.(a mark is something that identifies something so when we have this mark we show we are for the beast) This symbolizes the fact that he requires them to live by their own authority and be empowered to do whatever the beast deems to be fit.I.e He makes humanity rely on their deeds and actions and seeks to eradicate reliance on God.

When the Bible says they shall receive the mark in “their” right hand it means that when they have this number they shall control and have authority over their own actions and deeds instead of submitting to Gods control and rulership:Rebellion

What does the Bible mean by “And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name’?

Buying means exchanging money or valuables for goods while selling means exchanging goods and valuables for money or other valuables.So what does the Bible mean when it says that no man shall buy and sell?It means if You refuse to compromise If You refuse to be conformed to the world You would not have a part in the world system.If You rebel against the educational systems You cant have a certificate.If You do not compromise Your standards at work You cant function in the system.If You refuse to be promiscuous society labels You as being prude or infertile.
For example, a Christian counselor in the uk called Gary McFarlane lost his job at a branch of Relate after telling his manager that the Bible forbade homosexual activity and it was his duty to follow this it is claimed. for full story read(http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/religion/3539422/Christi…)On the set of greys anatomy Isaiah Washington lost his role simply because he used a derogatory epithet toward co-star T. R. Knight and his sexuality. (T.R Knight was gay)Countless of Christians were murdered simply because they didn’t renounce God .All the apostles were persecuted because they would never renounce God and conform to the world.(1 Timothy 4:10:For therefore we both labor and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Savior of all men, specially of those that believe.)If the Apostles had chosen to compromise the truth they would have saved their lives in the system and gotten the approval of men but they would have been out of favor with God (Luke 16: 15And he said unto them, Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God.

People have assumed that, because verse 18(of rev 13) says that the number 666 is the number of a man, this number can only be attached to a single individual. The reality is that in the Greek language, “the number of a man” can also mean “a human number” or “a number of humanity”.
The number is associated with the Beast’s system of religion and government. The number 666 could very well represent the apex of human perfection, because under the leadership of the Antichrist/Beast, the magnificent religious, governmental, and economic system of the beast alliance of nations will appear to be the best system ever devised.

In the study of the numerical symbolism of the Bible, the number 6 is clearly associated with Mankind or humanity; therefore, the number 666 appears to be the number of the collective consciousness and morality of humanity. (In other words the standards and morals the world lives by and requires humanity to live by).

We bear the number 666 when we seek to see with our own eyes (gen 3:5-6) and not with God’s eye(Note that eye here means understanding).Seeing with Gods eye is when we see the things that he wants us to see(seeing his glory instead of our “nakedness”(Read Gen 2:25, Psalm 32:8,John 9:41).

Seeing with our own eyes means seeing the things satan wants us to see(ourselves and what we can do without God Read Gen 3:6).Whenever we see with our own eyes,we exalt the self , we ignore the need for God,We are not in Gods rest,We govern our own lives , are incomplete and hence bear the forbidden number.

Because God the Father allows an evil global system to exist before his Son’s return, the number 666 could very well be viewed in the context of the entire religious, economic, and governmental system that is controlled by the Antichrist Spirit (Satan)(2.Thes 2:4).

In conclusion the number 666 isn’t a physical number don’t expect a government to arise that will issue this number on the right hand and forehead or underneath the skin.Even if that happened 98% of people will never receive it.(and the Bible claims the whole world worshiped the beast)Its a spiritual number and majority of the world today possess it.

Way of escape:
Submission to God rejection of the world(serpent) way of thinking(materialism,immorality and carnality )and non conformity to the worlds serpent image(Romans 12:2)are the only way to escape Gods wrath.Shedrach Meschach and Abednego preferred to be placed in a fiery furnace of fire than to bow down to the satanic Babylonian image established by Nebuchadnezzar.Are You read to do the same?

Remember this: None of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand. (Dan 12:10).Unless God opens our eyes We will never fully understand the mysteries of God and hence never get to understand his words(Prov28:5).

Only few people will ever get to realize the things I write here and then it might be too late.
Wake up and be reconciled with Your Maker.Let him rule Your heart.He bought You with a price(1 cor 6:19,20)You are not Your own You are not free to live as You like submit to Your Maker

For more illuminating articles like this visit:endtimedeception.ning.com

What do YOU think?

comments

Comments

  1. lookinforacity says:

    Hi Tim
    Thanks for the info.
    I thought if I asked in the form of the 2 issues I could get a response without running head long into the VERBIAGE MONSTER.
    Maby the subject should have stayed in bed to begin with.

    JIM

  2. lookinforacity says:

    Hi Arthur

    Your Hypothesis, concerning the number 666, has for it’s foundation, the Presupposition, that all of this understanding can, and will only involve the unfolding events of the future.
    Your Presupposition, has to be proved first, in order for your Hypothesis to gain the legs it needs to stand.

    JIM

    • nadir47 says:

      Hi Jim,
      The things of God are not for the academic mind so I wasn’t being hypothetical, i was being spiritual. and I wasn’t given a presupposition I was presenting Gods counsel to the spiritual discerning minds to discern not for the academic curious minds who look for facts and proof.

      -Matthew 16:4:A wicked and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given unto it, but sign of the prophet Jonas. And he left them, and departed

      -Matt 12:41:The men of Nineveh shall rise in judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: because they repented at the preaching of Jonas; and, behold, a greater than Jonas is here. And he left them, and departed.

      Jesus said it is an evil and adulterous generation that seeks signs(proofs)He said the only sign that would be given to this generation of people would be the sign of the Prophet Jonah and what was the sign of the the prophet Jonah?The preaching of the undiluted word of God.He never gave them any proof but they believed because they sensed his message was from God and were God fearing people.

      The only thing i will present to You is the truth of Gods word.That is the greatest proof.If You have any objections based on the word of God,You can raise it.

      • Timothy Luke says:

        Greetings Arthur,

        1 Timothy 4:1 says, “Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;”

        I believe you are operating in the spiritual realm, but the realm is not of God. You are resisting “proof” and berating our brother for seeking proof.

        1 John 4:1 says, “Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.”

        Brother Jim is walking in the first part of that by trying the spirits, but your replies to him have made it obvious you are in peril of fulfilling the second half of being a false prophet.

        All on this board are enjoined to follow Paul’s injunction to “prove ALL things, hold fast that which is good.” When you state, “I was presenting Gods counsel to the spiritual discerning minds to discern not for the academic curious minds who look for facts and proof,” and then you rail on our brother by using verses to implicate those who seek proof as “an evil and adulterous generation,” you have stepped outside the bonds of the fellowship of believers who have not checked their brains at the door and gone after every wind of doctrine.

        Ephesians 4:14-15 “That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive; But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:”

        When you say you are presenting the truth of God’s Word, but cannot use the Word of God and intelligent discussion of it, no one is bound to believe you simply because you feel inspired. When deception comes, all manner of good feelings and the sense of having a great insight abound. It is only by comparing that revelation with the written Word, that we have the ability to discern whether it is good or evil.

        Your doctrine, presented as truth, has failed to meet basic testing. As a shepherd, I admonish you to repent and reject the false doctrine you have embraced and are espousing. I also warn people to not give place to it.

        I spent half the night two nights ago refuting your last post to me point by point, but have not posted it amid assuming new responsibilities I was not expecting to at the time. I will do so at the end of this post, for the record.

        Shalom,
        Timothy

        The following is a point by point reply to Nadir47’s post to me, my responses are in bold . . .

        -Luke 3: 7:Then said he to the multitude that came forth to be baptized of him, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?
        -Luke 24:25:Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken:
        -Acts 7:51: Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye.
        -Matt 24:16:Woe unto you, ye blind guides, which say, Whosoever shall swear by the temple, it is nothing; but whosoever shall swear by the gold of the temple, he is a debtor!
        -Gal 2: 11:But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed.

        Hi Tim,
        It is definitely not demeaning to put someone right who is in error.As You are aware lots of people read these forums and misleading teachings are bound to lead people astray.As You can see from the above verses Jesus and His saints publicly and harshly repudiated people who were ignorant or living in error so it is not wrong to repudiate as long as it is done in the spirit of truth and love.Or are You trying to suggest Jesus,Paul and Stephen were arrogant?

        Thanks for giving me liberty to set you straight. To answer your question, No, I am suggesting that you are arrogant. The question revolves around whether you were putting “someone right who is in error.”

        I brought points to the discussion that showed where you were wrong in your interpretation of scripture and applying it out of context to prove points it was not addressing. With that in mind, I did not see you operating out of a spirit of truth, which also opened the door to questioning if it was a spirit of love. You were rebuking a brother as though his points were so out of line with scripture that he needed to be brought up short..

        It is very wrong for You to conclude that i was implying that i was smart and he was dumb because i said he was ignorant.I was only being truthful.If You read the post very well You would have noticed that i wrote that he didn’t have to agree with me and that i knew he was striving to know God.The Bible tells us not to judge after the flesh but to judge righteous judgment so it is wrong for You to conclude that i was indirectly calling him dumb.

        The premise for saying someone is ignorant is rooted in 1) You know a fact, and 2) They do not. If you were obviously right, then I would not have had as much an issue with your use of the word “ignorant”. I do apologize in that I could have left the word “dumb” out. More accurately I would say to you that your use of the word ignorant says, 1) I am smart, and 2) you are not. It is saying I have the truth on this and you do not.

        When we use those terms it is best for us to back them up thoroughly. On a fellowship board among believers I would argue it is counter productive to love and relationship to tell someone they are ignorant. Why would we do that? If I am trying to instruct, why would I throw a phrase out there that would shift the focus off the topic and onto a personal level? Why not simply prove my point and let the other person appear as they may? It comes off as more ego than love.

        You claim mature Christians are able to discern between good and evil Excuse me, it is the writer to the Hebrews who makes that claim. I just took it at face value and passed it along. “Hebrews 5:14 But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.
        Now what do You use to discern Good and Evil?Hebrews 5:12-14 which You quoted says the strong meat of Gods Word. Heb 5:12 “For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat. For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe. But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.”

        It does not say “the strong meat of God’s Word, it implies” the word of righteousness”. This in its Hebrew word for “word” is “logos”, which is the spoken word, or thought – not the written Word of God. The writer is saying “I need to teach you something, but you do not have the ability to process what I need to tell you because you have not matured by exercising your senses to discern good and evil. It is in the practical application of God’s Word in our daily lives that we grow in discernment. When that discernment has come, we are able to rightly divide teachings and digest them. The practical application of God’s Word is walking in love with God and with each other. Upon the two great commandments hang ALL the law and the PROPHETS. The whole purpose of the Bible is to get us to walk in love! When we walk in love, we have fellowship with the Father and we can ask for wisdom and receive it liberally. Discernment is also a gift of the Holy Spirit.

        Paul says, “though I know all mysteries, and have all knowledge, and have not charity, it profits me NOTHING.”

        Now when You don’t strive to understand the hard to understand parts of(strong meat)Gods word then how do You discern what is good from what is evil? When I strive to understand parts of God’s Word I generally keep my nose in the Bible and use a concordance. I avoid commentaries because I am trying to hear from God, not men who have heard from God, or claim to have. I strive to obey God’s law and ask for understanding when needed. Psalm 111:10, “The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom: a good understanding have all they that do his commandments: his praise endureth for ever.” Again, what are His commandments? LOVE.

        How do You identify Satan and God when You do not even know God and You are fooled to accept satan as ideal? Please try to quote the whole context of a verse not just a portion of it. There you go being patronizing…. practice what you teach please. The whole context proves my point.

        Also Romans 12:2 says: “And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God”.

        The only way to understand what is good acceptable and perfect in Gods sight is when our minds are renewed.This transforms us from being earthly minded to become heavenly(spiritually) minded.It is only when our minds are renewed by God that we can bear his image and understand what is acceptable and perfect in his sight.

        Im glad You said that it was “Your understanding of the verse that You quoted”(Dan 12:4)You see humanity has a choice to believe whatever they want to believe in the same way Eve had a choice to believe the lies of the serpent in the garden or to believe the truth of the living God.You have the right to believe all Your life that the sky is green but it doesn’t change the fact that it is blue. In the same way we can choose to believe whatever we like and make our own reality but that doesn’t change the reality.

        Please prove your point. You are berating me and yet you have offered ZERO proof for your conclusion…. Daniel 12:4 is written in the same manner that “as it was in the days of Noah” was written. It is written to show the level of decadence in the world leading up to the Savior’s coming. It is not written as a statement of how wonderful the world will be when Jesus returns. For your interpretation to be true, Daniel 12:4 would be contradictory to the passage of “as in the days of Noah.” Jesus clearly says no one will know and you are saying the wise will.

        Matthew 24:36-44 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only. But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

        Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come. But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up. Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.

        Jesus is saying focus on doing the work you are called to do and do not become preoccupied with the cares of this world. He is saying, you will not know the hour until it comes. Notice one is taken in the field, one is grinding. Even the chosen ones did not know when He was coming. They were not “on their knees,” or “studying all the hard passages,” they were doing their daily lives before the Lord.

        Moving to and fro as used in daniel 12 definitely doesnt refer to traveling. Why not? What is your proof for that statement? When one takes Daniel 12:4 at face value and it most certainly does refer to travel. If you want to say it means something else, then you have to at least give me a reason, other than “I said so,” to accept your point. Even if man could travel to saturn or the sun it doesnt increase or decrease the knowledge of God. You are still in your paradigm. The point is not the knowledge of God, it is the fund of total knowledge mankind is accumulating. Never before has there been this massive hyperacceleration of knowledge. Unless Gods spirit moves us our traveling is useless. Moving to and fro refers to diligence seeking to know facts from various sources. You just made an assumption. You have zero proof for that conclusion and yet you are adament about it. How many sources do you need? Is the Bible not enough? Is God not enough? What other sources do you recommend?

        1 tim 6:20-21:”O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and “oppositions of science” falsely so called:Which some professing have erred concerning the faith. Grace be with thee. Amen.

        2 cor 4:18:While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.
        Also The knowledge referred to in the verse has nothing to do with the knowledge of Science.The knowledge of God is found in Christ not in the findings of Einstein or newton.That is why the Bible advised us in the verse above not to embrace the oppositions of science.Science deals with what we can see.Christianity deals with the things that are not seen(2 cor 4:18)so they both are the opposite of each other. I am losing the point here. If we are looking at things not seen, then why are we supposedly in your view, to run to and fro to seek them out from “various sources? You interpret Daniel as saying the knowledge of God will increase by our running to and fro seeking after it. If we agree with 2 Cor. 4:18 that we are to look at things not seen, then why are those running to and fro looking for things seen viewed in your mind as being Godly? Your argument is imploding on itself with the scriptures you are quoting.

        Well its a pity that You feel perfection is only about love. Perfection is predominantly about love, not only. Knowledge plays are part in it, and I agree with your illustration that follows, but knowledge is only a part. You have stated that we will have perfect knowledge. That is a lie that leads people down a path of pride and vanity. Because the danger of that lie is great, I have chosen to challenge it openly. The Bible says that by his knowledge(not his love )shall the just be delivered.Love is the greatest gift true but You cant love someone You don’t know. No right thinking woman loves a man that she doesn’t know well enough.So in order to love God You must want to know Him and be like him.And the Bible also says that if we love him we should keep his commandments so if You love God You would take his advise and be spiritually discerning. Not carnally stubborn. Here you are patronizing. You are vaunting yourself, at my expense and are thus not walking in love with me. I am quite discerning, thank you. I am not writing these things simply to be contrary to you. I am writing them to be true to the Word of God. What makes you think I am being carnal in this?

        The Bible says that in love all the commandments are fulfilled.So if You claim to love God then do not be carnal because that is his commandment .I repeat this isn’t about me being right or wrong or You being right or wrong.Its about the truth.Its about God. AMEN! and allowing his will to come to pass

        Also Your claim that “Paul was clearly saying it is not given to us in this dispensation to know all things” is misleading.The same Paul who You quote was the one that said in Eph 4:11-13:And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto “a perfect man”, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ.

        So the aim of giving the church pastors prophets etc is for the perfecting of the church and it is going to be in this dispensation.That is why the Bible said “till we all come”Also “the knowledge of the Son of God” as used in the verse means we shall all (Christians who obey God) come to a full understanding of Jesus at the appointed time And that my friend is the kicker. Just when is the “appointed time”? You believe the appointed time is prior to the Lord’s return. I take Paul’s statement of “then we shall see face to face” as meaning we will know all things when the Lord returns and we are face to face with Him.

        Let’s put this in context by looking at Ephesians 4:11-15

        Eph 4:11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

        That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive; But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:

        I believe your arguments are incomplete and contradictory. As a mature believer I am not going to be tossed to and fro by your unsupported assertions, nor the arrogance that belittles those who hold a differing view. The perfecting of the saint is not referring to them knowing everything. That does not make one perfect. It makes them knowledgable. Again, the verses on being perfect are in context verses speaking of love. Paul says, “though I know all mysteries and have all knowledge, and have not charity, it profits me nothing. I am a sounding brass. That coupled with Ephesians 4 shows us that the perfecting of the saints has more to do with learning what love is and how to walk in it, than it does about having special understanding of end time events. Paul says in 1Corinthians 13:9, For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.

        The perfecting of the saints has nothing to do with knowing all mysteries and having all knowledge. These things are only in part and cannot be fully known until that which is perfect is come. This is future tense, and when it comes, the knowledge and prophecies will be done away. Your interpretation contradicts this because if that which is perfect refers to perfect understanding, knowledge and prophecies, then what is the point? We throw it out as soon as we receive it?

        The fruit of your argument is striving. Striving to come to definitive conclusions that are not there, and then drawing a line between you and other believers who do not agree. You have labelled me, for example of this fruit, as “carnal” in my motive. You have labelled Jim as “ignorant” of the truths you supposed were self evident, yet unsubstantiated. Where strife is all manner of evil abounds.

        The fruit of believing we can know all things is that it comes coupled with an understanding that we “should” know all things. If we are not seeking after all the mysteries, we are lacking in our zeal for God, because as you state, “if we love Him we will want to know Him.” When this coupling takes place, I have a drivenness to pursue those mysteries and then a duty to proclaim them, even if God’s Word hasn’t really proclaimed them. This set me at odds with those who take God at His Word and we have division in the body.

        Another fruit is pride. Once we have it all figured out we tend to look down upon those who have not figured it out.

        The Bible does not say we can know all things pertaining to the second coming of Jesus Christ. It is not a measure of our perfection. If my point is not clear enough to you, I have done my best and will leave the discussion at that.

      • lookinforacity says:

        Hi Arthur:

        Look, I don’t want an argument from you. If you have something to teach, then teach it.
        I have asked you for information that you seem to possess.
        These are the two issues I have.
        1.) WHEN will these things you are espousing come to pass?
        2.) WHERE in scripture can we find that it says these things are in “OUR” future?
        In short back up the claims you have made, with scripture that supports them. And that’s all I want.
        If you can’t then forget trying to say anything in the future.

        JIM

      • Bro Nadir ,

        To my mind the sign of the prophet Jonah is not the undiluted word of God.

        It is Jonah being in the belly of the fish for 3 days(as good as dead) , and then coming back to the living world.

        When Jesus spoke of this , it meant that He would be dead , …and after 3 days , …rise again to life.

        And this sign came to pass , when Jesus rose again.

        Feel free to correct me if you think otherwise.

        In the Lord

        Vikki

    • Timothy Luke says:

      Hi Jim,

      I believe Arthur has said what he wants on this topic and that is it. I have blocked his recent replies because they are more of the same. If anyone wants to clear up their personal questions with him, you are free to look him up from the information he has posted.

      I am recommending that we leave this topic alone as it appears all that can be said has been said and now it will just be a downhill ride for all. He has come on as an authority, not one under authority to my oversight on these forums. I am granting that his posts remain to this point because he posted it as a personal blog. Regarding this topic that he began, I am letting it stand for people’s review, but recommend no further discussion on these boards. You can click his name in blue and contact him privately if you like.

      If claims continue to be made and people treated as ‘you either learn what I am saying or you simply aren’t operating in truth’ then further steps may be taken.

      Blessings and Peace,
      Timothy

      • Hi Timothy-

        The discussion between yourself and Arthur was very inappropriate- it makes me wonder about the many references to love- even tough love is first by example, lest we fall into a snare.

        We should all be careful that we don’t fall foul of: “by the measure used it will be measured back” (Mt 7:2)

        I will follow this up in a posting.

        Peer

  3. sprhyt7 says:

    sprhyt7

    Please see this link if you would like to know more :
    http://kenraggio.com/KRPN-ImageToTheBeast.html
    It has a good approach, but one must also be on his guard and bring back everything to God so as to have His enlightenment and discernment.
    I have other links also…but I do not know if everybody is prepared to know how things are in this world of doom. Because if we are not strong enough in our Faith,a lot of the realities of this world of evil is very scary.
    A spiritual warfare is on and we , as Christians must be prepared for it, and know where and how to stand.

    God Bless

  4. lookinforacity says:

    nadir47 —- do you have a name?

    Your statement is
    “Moving to and fro refers to diligence seeking to know facts from various sources.”

    It means to seek out knowledge for knowledge sake. Not for the sake of learning anything about God.
    2 Timothy 4:3
    For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;

    You say:
    This isn’t about me being right or wrong or You being right or wrong.Its about the truth.

    Ok then speak:
    You have the floor, we want to hear all of your understanding on (666). But there is a stipulation, present it to us in the same way, that a lawyer in a court would do to a jury, because we will Judge your understanding, whether it has merit.
    We all want to learn, so lay it all out for us, but in a cohesive way, we want the facts, not long narrative.
    And for a change lets take it in small doses, we all understand you have this whole thing.
    You say that you have something for the body, well the body is saying show it to us !

    JIM

    • nadir47 says:

      Dan 12:8-10:”And I heard, but I understood not: then said I, O my Lord, what shall be the end of these things?And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end.Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand”.

      Hi Jim,
      My name is Arthur.Now if You read Daniel 12:8-10 You would discover that moving to and fro does not refer to knowing for knowing sake like You claim but knowing to understand the mystery of what God is saying.We as Christians are not to seek to know God “For knowing sake”We are to seek to know God because we love him and want to be taken over by his spirit and to come to a perfect understanding of Him.That is why Jesus said that he that is perfectly trained shall be as his Master..No woman wants to know a man she loves for knowing sake.She would want to know a man for love’s sake and to have a deeper communion with him.That is the way we should seek to know God.Not for academic purposes but to understand His will.

      I did give my understanding of what the number 666 meant that is what is raising all this controversy and i am very open to people judging it in light of the Bible however no one has.
      And i did give facts i gave Bible verses,to back my points.But unfortunately most of my critics do not back up their points with the Bible and do not confront the issues I raise.

      So pls read the original topic and if You have issues raise them.

  5. lookinforacity says:

    nadir47

    This is a very good place to begin.
    For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
    “The people in Noah’s time were ignorant of the fact that God was going to destroy the earth with a flood. Only Noah was aware and that was why he prepared.”

    Noah and his sons built on the Arc for 120 yrs. Unless he built it in his garage where nobody could see it for all of that time, EVERYONE knew what he was doing!
    He told them it was going to rain, flood, and that everything was going to be destroyed.
    They just did not believe him. They Had ‘NO” Faith.
    Our preaching the message of salvation to the world is the equivalent. Jesus is the Arc we preach, that will save sinners from the things coming upon the earth.
    God gave Noah fair warning when things were going to happen.

    “And the LORD said unto Noah, Come thou and all thy house into the ark; for thee have I seen righteous before me in this generation.”

    I have heard these same things for the last 40 yrs. from all of the major Evangelists of our time, making time lines, graphs, and predictions.

    We are the same as Noah, God will give “US” fair warning, opening our eyes to the sings of the times.
    Not by our trying to figure it out years before the time has arrived.
    Those of us that are Christ’s at His returning, will have our bags already packed, tickets in hand waiting to go through customs.

    To paraphrase what Jesus said to the young ruler, “go, take all that you have written, put it in a drawer locking it, and come follow me.”
    Even when we seek what we may deem to be truth, we can make it our god. We have to be able to walk away from those things that do not edify.

    JIM

    • nadir47 says:

      Be Like Your Father Church,Be spiritual.God is spirit and those that seek to know him and have fellowship with Him have to be spiritual.Flesh and blood will never inherit his Kingdom.

    • nadir47 says:

      Hi Jim,
      -Amos 3:7:Surely the Lord GOD will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets.

      Well Im glad that You admitted that Noah knew Gods plan to destroy the earth a long time before the earth was destroyed.Your admittance of that fact shows that You accept that Your earlier point that Gods saints do not understand what his words mean and what He plans to do “until they happen” is erroneous.

      Your claim that God is going to reveal things when His “time arrives” is true.But saying we shouldn’t try to figure it out is erroneous and misleading.

      -2 Pet 3:1 says:Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

      What do You think the Bible means when it says we are to “look” and “hasten” the day of the Lord?It means we are to desire it to seek it and to speed its coming.Also Dan 12:4:But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.What do You think the Bible means when it says that many should run to and fro?it means they shall diligently search.That is also the reason why Jesus said in Matt7:7:Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:He didn’t say just sit back and expect Me to make You understand.

      -Prov 11:9: 9An hypocrite with his mouth destroyeth his neighbor: “but through knowledge shall the just be delivered”.
      The Bible says by his knowledge shall the just be delivered and Hosea 4:6 says my people perish because of lack of knowledge.

      So as much as we rely on God to reveal his word to us,We are also to diligently submit to Him and ask him to reveal himself to us and it is the knowledge that He gives us that we use to overcome the devil.

      We are in the end times now.Most of the signs Jesus gave to his church and said would indicate the time of the end have either come to pass or are coming to pass(He gave us these signs so we could identify the time of the end and earnestly watch for his return) I’m well aware that You know that God isn’t a liar.If God said at the time of the end knowledge would increase and people would understand his words then I guess it is very much in place for his words to become clearer in this age.

      2 thess 2:10-11:And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
      And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie.

      Jim,I sense You are a diligent seeker of God who is interested in doing His will.But You better receive the love for the truth or else You would be deceived.The truth is that God is spirit.The truth is that You cant understand him unless You seek him.The truth is that He desires for You to know Him.The truth is that the Bible said that the whole world would be deceived by the beast and if the evil days had not been shortened no flesh would be saved(even Gods elect).The truth is that this is the time of the end.Even satanists realize this and they know that 666 is a number of the mind.They call it the number of perfection and they call all those who possess it the “6th root race”They believe that their task is the “apotheosis” of the human race to attain divine self hood(666,secular perfection).That is what the so called”New world order” is about.The”renewing” of the human race to achieve “divine selfhood”(Gen 3:5-6.The NWO is also the reflection of what the builders of babel wanted to accomplish, The conformity of the whole world to the open eye(666)consciousness which has self and not God at the center.That was why God divided them.

      The people of Noah’s time were well aware that Noah was building an ark just the way Lot made some of the sodomites aware that God was going to destroy Sodom before he destroyed it.However it looked stupid to them.How could a man build an ark when there wasn’t any sign of a flood?Lots in laws also thought Lot was joking.How could such a beautiful city be destroyed by fire from heaven?impossible they thought.That is the same way many people today mock when We tell them of Gods imminent judgment on Mankind and the meaning of Gods mysteries.Lots of people know about the preaching of the cross,Gods demands for the world,his kingdom,666,and the beast and hell fire but just like Noah’s preaching looked foolish to his contemporaries and Lots in laws thought he was joking,that is the same way the preaching of Gods undiluted and unveiled word looks foolish to the people of the world today(even many so called christians).That is why the Bible says in 1 cor 2: 14:But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are “foolishness” unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.The things of God are foolish to the carnal mind and that is why they ignore them as being “irrevlevant”.

      This is not about me being right or You being right.Its about truth.You cant afford to be ignorant of the truth in this age.Going to church and Bible study arent enough.God wants Your whole life not a portion of it.Seek to understand Gods move in these last days.Be among the wise few who would understand.You don’t have to believe Me.But never disagree with Gods word.Its our standard as Christians.

  6. DeepSeeker says:

    To those who have eyes to see and ears to hear

    I recently posted a short blog on 666. Of cours to fully cover such a deep subject one would have to write a book. This can not be done here however .

    One has said: 666 can’t be Jesus because He would not have us to seek evil. Of course He wouldn’t, that would be contrary to His whole purpose for mankind. This does not mean however, that He can not appear as an evil form if He so chose to!

    OOOOH, many will say at this. But read on.Let us consider what took place from God in the Old Testament ( The early part of the Old Testament ).

    Jdg 9:22 When Abimelech had reigned three years over Israel,
    Jdg 9:23 Then God sent an evil spirit between Abimelech and the men of Shechem; and the men of Shechem dealt treacherously with Abimelech:

    Sa 16:13-15 Then Samuel took the horn of oil, and anointed him in the midst of his brethren: and the Spirit of the LORD came upon David from that day forward. So Samuel rose up, and went to Ramah. But the Spirit of the LORD departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the LORD troubled him. And Saul’s servants said unto him, Behold now, an evil spirit from God troubleth thee.

    1Sa 18:9-10 And Saul eyed David from that day and forward. And it came to pass on the morrow, that the evil spirit from God came upon Saul, and he prophesied in the midst of the house: and David played with his hand, as at other times: and there was a javelin in Saul’s hand.

    1Sa 19:8-9 And there was war again: and David went out, and fought with the Philistines, and slew them with a great slaughter; and they fled from him. And the evil spirit from the LORD was upon Saul, as he sat in his house with his javelin in his hand: and David played with his hand.

    Job 1:9-12 Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, Doth Job fear God for nought? Hast not thou made an hedge about him, and about his house, and about all that he hath on every side? thou hast blessed the work of his hands, and his substance is increased in the land. But put forth thine hand now, and touch all that he hath, and he will curse thee to thy face. And the LORD said unto Satan, Behold, all that he hath is in thy power; only upon himself put not forth thine hand. So Satan went forth from the presence of the LORD.

    Now it should be very apparent from these verses that God is sovereign in all matters; even the ones concerning evil .If He were not Christ could not have accomplished what He has for spiritual salvation of mankind !

    So then, in Revelation the Beast with the numerical number of 666 which we had covered in an earlier blog, could very well be Jesus, and is !

    Concerning this number in Revelation the directive is this: Let him who has wisdom calculate the number of the beast. To calculate indicates a numerical calculation, not a mental thought. The calculation is one that deals with the numerical number 666; which is connected to the Gematria of the Greek alphabet. Each letter has numerical values; 666 being one of combination of a word value. It IS NOT Ceaser !

    We will not pursue this any deeper here. For the ones who are really seeking God spiritual truth this should provide a path for them.

    Blessings in Christ
    DeepSeeker

    • JustAGuy says:

      I mentioned in another post that deep seeking has its problems. When you drill for fresh water and find it, it is not wise to drill much deeper as you can tap into iron, or sulfur and contaminate the well. This is where I smell sulphur in the water DeepSeeker.

      James 1:13-17 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man: But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

      Do not err, my beloved brethren. Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.

      To say that Jesus would appear in an evil form is blasphemous. He came in the flesh and appeared in a righteous form, but that form was counted evil of men. For one to say he personally took on an evil form contradicts who God is at His very core. He is not a deceiver. There is no shadow of turning with Him – which is to say He does not morph from ‘good cop’ to ‘bad cop’. He is light and there is no shadow of darkness in Him.

      God does allow evil spirits to have access to mankind when mankind has opened themselves up to its presence. “Know you not to whom you yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants you are to whom you obey. Whether of obedience to righteousness, or sin unto death” Rom 6:15-17 I believe.

      “For the ones who are really seeking God spiritual truth this should provide a path for them.” I have concerns about the path being presented here. The message that the path to spiritual truth for those “who are really seeking God” is found in this message is clearly an appeal to vanity. It also implies if I do not agree I am not “really” seeking God.

      You support your claim that Jesus could appear as an evil form by quoting verses that speak specifically of ‘an evil spirit’ being sent by the Lord. Your words taken at face value are then stating that Jesus IS an evil spirit, because if He came in that form and that form is specifically called an evil spirit, you have a real problem. Of course, it appears my concern can be brushed off as one who is ‘not really seeking’. I found Jesus, I do not need to seek Him. Your explanation has overtones of occultism.

      My God is not a god of deception who comes in the form of evil to accomplish His deeds. He will use Satan’s kingdom – since we have chosen it – but He does not dress up in evil, any more than you could dress as a woman and be obedient to God’s laws.

      Concerned,
      Timothy

    • You write:

      “One has said: 666 can’t be Jesus because He would not have us to seek evil. Of course He wouldn’t, that would be contrary to His whole purpose for mankind. This does not mean however, that He can not appear as an evil form if He so chose to!”

      ——————-

      What you are writing here is in fact blasphemous, that the Son of God could take the form as evil or that the Holy Spirit could do so.

      Peter responded to Simon the magician so:

      21 You have neither part nor portion in this matter, for your heart is not right in the sight of God. 22 Repent therefore of this your wickedness, and pray God if perhaps the thought of your heart may be forgiven you. 23 For I see that you are poisoned by bitterness and bound by iniquity.”
      24 Then Simon answered and said, “Pray to the Lord for me, that none of the things which you have spoken may come upon me.”

      ————————

      Jesus presents himself in our person through the Holy Spirit, so this is blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. My suggestion to you is not only to recant of this but to stop posting on theology and place yourself under the guidance of reliable teaching in an attested fellowship.

      If you are serious about Jesus Christ- take this cautionary very seriously.

      —————-

      I strongly recommend that your posting privileges are withdrawn.

    • nadir47 says:

      -Titus 3:10:Warn a divisive person once, and then warn him a second time. After that, have nothing to do with him.

      -Romans 16: 17:Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.

      Well You show that You are very ignorant and resistant to truth with Your writings.God is sovereign in all matters that happen on the earth in the sense that the devil cannot go against the boundaries that he sets.But he is never and can never be responsible for evil.

      If He is responsible for evil as You claim why did he send Jesus to die for our sins?Why didn’t he leave us the way we were since he is responsible for evil?Why does he tell us to repent?Why is he angry with humanity for rejecting his salvation?Why does he forbid us from seeking the self and instead asks us to embrace the cross of Christ?Why does the bible call the devil the god of this world(2 cor 4:4)Why does Jesus call the rebellious Jews of their father the devil and not of God(John 8:44)

      -James 1: 13:Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:

      You better repent of Your ignorance of God.God is not going to tolerate anyone who claims to be His child and yet enjoys frolicking in falsehood.You can clearly see from scripture that God is not evil and is not the originator of evil .

      • lookinforacity says:

        All of the mysteries we could seek to know from The Revelation of John, we will never learn until they happen, that is what puts them into the category of prophesy.
        Therefore all of this seeking is not for knowledge. The fact we CANNOT ever know these things, our assumptions, opinions only gender strife’s, cause division, this is not of God.

        Jesus Himself said.
        Matthew 24:36
        But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

        Proverbs 12:1
        Whoso loveth instruction loveth knowledge: but he that hateth reproof is brutish.
        Proverbs 9:10
        The fear of the LORD is the beginning of WISDOM and the KNOWLEDGE of the holy is UNDERSTANDING.

        Proverbs 2:3,5,6
        Yea, if thou criest after knowledge, and liftest up thy voice for understanding;
        Then shalt thou understand the fear of the LORD, and find the knowledge of God.
        For the LORD giveth wisdom: out of his mouth cometh knowledge and understanding.

        Proverbs 4:5-9
        Get wisdom, get understanding: forget it not; neither decline from the words of my mouth.
        Forsake her not, and she shall preserve thee: love her, and she shall keep thee.
        Wisdom is the principal thing; therefore get wisdom: and with all thy getting get understanding.
        Exalt her, and she shall promote thee: she shall bring thee to honour, when thou dost embrace her.
        She shall give to thine head an ornament of grace: a crown of glory shall she deliver to thee.

        We are to be seeking those things that would make for a TREASURE.
        KNOWLEDGE,UNDERSTANDING,WISDOM

        JIM

        • nadir47 says:

          Reject Ignorance(darkness,satan)Choose Light(Jesus,God)Seek to understand Gods mysteries and hasten His imminent return.Be like Lot and Noah in their respective generations.Be a preacher of righteousness

        • nadir47 says:

          Prov 28: 5:Evil men understand not judgment: but they that seek the LORD understand “all” things.

          1 John 2:27:But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you “of all things”, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.
          Gen 18: 17:”And the LORD said, Shall I hide from Abraham that thing which I do”;

          Dan 2:22-23:”He revealeth the deep and secret things: he knoweth what is in the darkness, and the light dwelleth with him.I thank thee, and praise thee, O thou God of my fathers, who hast given me wisdom and might, and hast made known unto me now what we desired of thee: for thou hast now made known unto us the king’s matter.

          Hi,
          Im sorry to say but You show ignorance of God and His words when You say that we will never understand the revelation of John till it happens.Proverbs 28:5 which ive quoted above shows that those that seek the Lord understand “all” things.
          Also The Bible says that by diligence(running to and fro)the mysteries of God would be revealed to the saints in the end times Dan 12: 4:But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.

          It is also unfortunate that You quoted just a small portion of Matt 24 to buttress Your point.Didn’t You see that in the verses immediately after the one that You quoted, Jesus said :Mat 24:37:But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
          For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

          Now ask Yourself what were the days of Noah like?The people in Noah’s time were ignorant of the fact that God was going to destroy the earth with a flood.Only Noah was aware and that was why he prepared.It was also like that in the days of Lot. Only Lot was privileged to know what was going to happen to the sodomites but all his warnings fell on deaf ears.
          When Jesus said no one knew the day he was talking about,He was referring to the time he gave the prophecy.He didn’t mean no one will ever understand it.He meant they would understand it at the right time.This is reflected in the prophecy given to Daniel in Daniel 12 where he said he didn’t understand the words of the prophecy and the angel told him that they wouldn’t be fully understood till the time of the end (Dan 12:4).So it doesn’t mean people wouldn’t understand it means they will understand at the right time.If Jesus felt we wouldn’t understand it then why did he deem it necessary to tell His disciples about it?

          Ephesians 4:13
          Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ:

          The aim of Christianity is perfection not ignorance.Jesus told us to be perfect as our Father(God) is perfect and since the aim is to be like God( by submitting to his spirit)and ignorance is not a trait of God,We should reject ignorance and seek the light of our father like Daniel did It is the honor of kings to want to find out the mysteries of Gods word.The reason why many Christians show reluctance in searching for Gods mysteries is because they are lazy and they love the world and their lives.They are not ready to pay the price to Know God.Count the cost submit to Jesus.Be like the wise virgins look forward to Your masters return.

          1 cor 2:14But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

          Seek Gods spirit and he will reveal his spiritually discerned words to You.You can never understand them with Your natural mind because they are incomprehensible to fleshy men.The reason why Gods words are incomprehensible is because we are carnal and do not rely on Him to reveal it to us.Not because he wants to keep us in ignorance(Prov 1:23)

        • JustAGuy says:

          Nadir47, Please allow me to bring a point of instruction in God’s Word on the topic of knowing all things. I will quote you so that we may have a clear path in this discussion.

          Im sorry to say but You show ignorance of God and His words when You say that we will never understand the revelation of John till it happens.Proverbs 28:5 which ive quoted above shows that those that seek the Lord understand “all” things.
          Also The Bible says that by diligence(running to and fro)the mysteries of God would be revealed to the saints in the end times Dan 12: 4:But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.

          I believe it is not Jim’s but your posts that display ignorance of God and His words.* I will take this very paragraph to explain what I mean.

          First Point, When discussing a point, I try to keep the focus on the topic, and not make statements of a personal nature. “You show ignorance . . .” is a demeaning term on a public forum. It says “I am smart and you are dumb” This is not what humility would demand of us.

          Second Point You use Proverb 28:5, “Evil men understand not judgment: but they that seek the LORD understand all things.” The context of this is ‘judgment’. Evil men have no basis for sound judgment because they cannot discern good from evil, let alone comprehend a judgment made against evil. They that seek the Lord have the ability to discern all things. Hebrews 5:12-14 says mature Christians are those who are able to discern good from evil.

          However, from the conclusion you drew of this verse, one may gather that Proverbs 28:5 means the wise understand calculus and quantum physics and how such as well? It means they will know how to build a space shuttle? They know how electricity works? To take that word “all” and apply it universally is not sound. The context places it in matters of judgment, not physics, quantum physics, or even prophecy.

          Third Point When Daniel 12:4 says “Knowledge shall be increased,” The word for knowledge is “da’ath” and refers to cunning. This word comes from Yada. Strong’s shows it as “yaw-dah’ A primitive root; to know (properly to ascertain by seeing);” and continues with its definition.

          My understanding of this verse is that it is a description of our times. Travel around the globe (never before possible) is happening at a frenetic pace. The quest for knowledge, via science, not prophetic seekers, is also exploding and our world fund of knowledge has been DOUBLING every generation or so. These things were not possible until these last days, and are a sign of the last days. (ironic that I am using my understanding of prophecy to disagree with you on the fact that not all prophecy is to be understood, :-))

          Running to and fro is not an act of diligence, as you interpreted it. Contrary. It is an act of scattering. A diligent person is focused and has but one source. The Lord. He dwells in one place, has one written Word, and tells us not to say “let us go up to heaven to find him, or go across the sea, for I am near…”

          On another post you wrote:

          “The aim of Christianity is perfection not ignorance.Jesus told us to be perfect as our Father(God) is perfect and since the aim is to be like God( by submitting to his spirit)and ignorance is not a trait of God,We should reject ignorance and seek the light of our father…”

          Here is the verse you quoted in context:

          Matthew 5:43-48 Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy. But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.

          For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same? And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so? Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

          This verse about being perfect as our Father in heaven is perfect, further exemplifies our need to love one another. The perfection referred to here is that of being mature in love. 1 Corinthians 13 says, “Love seeks not her own, is not easily angered, vaunts not itself,” etc. The approach your posts to Jim have taken have shown elements of you elevating yourself above our brother. “You show ignorance” is a two edged sword that says, 1) “You are ignorant”, and 2)” I am not.”

          Your interpretation my friend, has perfection juxtaposed to ignorance in this scripture. Perfection is not stated as a form of knowledge, so for you to then use it to argue against the lack of knowledge is not consistent with the verse. To counter your point, Paul says fruther in 1 Corinthians 13…

          1Corinthians 13:9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.
          1Co 13:11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.
          1Co 13:12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

          Paul was clearly saying it is not given to us in this dispensation to know all things.

          If we are to be perfect my friend, let it be in love as commanded and defined by God. Debates about prophecy are a distant second to walking in love and humility with one another.

          *I have used this term to describe your posts so that you might get an idea what it feels like to be on the receiving end of what you handed out to Jim.

          Blessings and Peace,
          Timothy

          • nadir47 says:

            -Luke 3: 7:Then said he to the multitude that came forth to be baptized of him, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?
            -Luke 24:25:Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken:
            -Acts 7:51: Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye.
            -Matt 24:16:Woe unto you, ye blind guides, which say, Whosoever shall swear by the temple, it is nothing; but whosoever shall swear by the gold of the temple, he is a debtor!
            -Gal 2: 11:But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed.

            Hi Tim,
            It is definitely not demeaning to put someone right who is in error.As You are aware lots of people read these forums and misleading teachings are bound to lead people astray.As You can see from the above verses Jesus and His saints publicly and harshly repudiated people who were ignorant or living in error so it is not wrong to repudiate as long as it is done in the spirit of truth and love.Or are You trying to suggest Jesus,Paul and Stephen were arrogant?

            It is very wrong for You to conclude that i was implying that i was smart and he was dumb because i said he was ignorant.I was only being truthful.If You read the post very well You would have noticed that i wrote that he didn’t have to agree with me and that i knew he was striving to know God.The Bible tells us not to judge after the flesh but to judge righteous judgment so it is wrong for You to conclude that i was indirectly calling him dumb.

            You claim mature Christians are able to discern between good and evil Now what do You use to discern Good and Evil?Hebrews 5:12-14 which You quoted says the strong meat of Gods Word.Now when You don’t strive to understand the hard to understand parts of(strong meat)Gods word then how do You discern what is good from what is evil?How do You identify Satan and God when You do not even know God and You are fooled to accept satan as ideal?Please try to quote the whole context of a verse not just a portion of it.
            Also Romans 12:2 says: “And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God”.
            The only way to understand what is good acceptable and perfect in Gods sight is when our minds are renewed.This transforms us from being earthly minded to become heavenly(spiritually) minded.It is only when our minds are renewed by God that we can bear his image and understand what is acceptable and perfect in his sight.

            Im glad You said that it was “Your understanding of the verse that You quoted”(Dan 12:4)You see humanity has a choice to believe whatever they want to believe in the same way Eve had a choice to believe the lies of the serpent in the garden or to believe the truth of the living God.You have the right to believe all Your life that the sky is green but it doesn’t change the fact that it is blue.In the same way we can choose to believe whatever we like and make our own reality but that doesn’t change the reality.

            Moving to and fro as used in daniel 12 definitely doesnt refer to traveling.Even if man could travel to saturn or the sun it doesnt increase or decrease the knowledge of God.Unless Gods spirit moves us our traveling is useless.Moving to and fro refers to diligence seeking to know facts from various sources.

            1 tim 6:20-21:”O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and “oppositions of science” falsely so called:Which some professing have erred concerning the faith. Grace be with thee. Amen.

            2 cor 4:18:While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.
            Also The knowledge referred to in the verse has nothing to do with the knowledge of Science.The knowledge of God is found in Christ not in the findings of Einstein or newton.That is why the Bible advised us in the verse above not to embrace the oppositions of science.Science deals with what we can see.Christianity deals with the things that are not seen(2 cor 4:18)so they both are the opposite of each other.

            Well its a pity that You feel perfection is only about love.The Bible says that by his knowledge(not his love )shall the just be delivered.Love is the greatest gift true but You cant love someone You don’t know.No right thinking woman loves a man that she doesn’t know well enough.So in order to love God You must want to know Him and be like him.And the Bible also says that if we love him we should keep his commandments so if You love God You would take his advise and be spiritually discerning.Not carnally stubborn.

            The Bible says that in love all the commandments are fulfilled.So if You claim to love God then do not be carnal because that is his commandment .I repeat this isn’t about me being right or wrong or You being right or wrong.Its about the truth.Its about God. and allowing his will to come to pass

            Also Your claim that “Paul was clearly saying it is not given to us in this dispensation to know all things” is misleading.The same Paul who You quote was the one that said in Eph 4:11-13:And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
            Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto “a perfect man”, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ.

            So the aim of giving the church pastors prophets etc is for the perfecting of the church and it is going to be in this dispensation.That is why the Bible said “till we all come”Also “the knowledge of the Son of God” as used in the verse means we shall all(Christians who obey God) come to a full understanding of Jesus at the appointed time

            -Jer 23: 17:They say still unto them that despise me, The LORD hath said, Ye shall have peace; and they say unto every one that walketh after the imagination of his own heart, No evil shall come upon you.
            John 7:43:”So there was a division among the people because of him”.
            -Luke 12:51:”Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division”:

            Jesus said he came to bring division not unity on the earth.God divided the tower of oneness in the Bible.Truth is better than unity.Id rather be divided for the truth than to be united under a lie.

    • michael says:

      The appeal to spiritual pride can be seen all over “Deepseeker’s” posts. He starts this one with “To those who have eyes to see and ears to hear”. In other words, “to you elite ones, to you superior ones who are not satisfied with the plain meaning of the text”. Its an appeal to spiritual pride.

      Further, consider “We will not pursue this any deeper here. For the ones who are really seeking God spiritual truth this should provide a path for them.”

      The implications in this statement are interesting. The use of the word “We” here is very pompous for a start. The implication is that Deepseeker’s writings “provide a path”. I would say it is a pathway to HELL. It is further implied that only if you are REALLY seeking “God spiritual truth” [sic] will you see the path of wisdom that Deepseeker is hinting at – the implication being that most of his readers are not. In other words, “you are on the outside now, but by deeply seeking the truth in my writings, you can join me in the inner circle of enlightened ones”. More appeal to spiritual pride.

      I would not be surprised if “Deepseeker” is in fact some kind of gnostic – those ones who believe they have a special spark of enlightenment not available to the common people. In Gnosticism, there is a belief that the God of the Bible who made the material universe is in fact a lower deity, an evil demiurge, and the task for the gnostic is to rise above all that and get to the real God that is above the Creator of this “evil” material universe. If Deepseeker is not gnostic, certainly elements of his philosophy are very akin to gnosticism.

      There is a verse in the Bible which says “the pride of your heart has deceived you”. Spiritual pride leads to deception.

      I have decided to ban Deepseeker from participating on this forum and urge readers not to be taken in by his philosophies and appeals to spiritual pride.

  7. from the wind says:

    What you’ve said is very interesting and I will grant that you could be right, but what of the world having to recieve microchips in their hands in a time to come. As we speak the U.S and perhaps other nations a seemingly prepping the world with finger and thumb scannning devices. People have to clock in to work with these and may soon have to shop with them. The U.S is still chasing after world peace which would likely cause a One World Government. It is written, 1Th 5:3 For when they shall say peace and safety, then sudden destruction cometh upon them as travail upon a woman with child and they shall not escape. I don’t think that God made things too symbolic for men to grasp. I think men are facing the truth but because of Satan’s influence they fail to take the correct actions.I don’t have all the answers to the mark of the beast, but I am quite sure things will not be so symbolic in the not too distant future. But if you have something that proves otherwise please do share it. I need the truth as all men do.

    • nadir47 says:

      Well,The use of Microchips and other sophisticated technologies by governments and their agencies are means of tightening their control over the citizens of the world.These technologies are going to be used as a means of monitoring the life of the citizens of the world to ensure that they conform to the values of the world the ruling powers promote.They will also be used to detect theft and crime as soon as they happen. The Microchip and other technologies have nothing to do with the forbidden number.

      The Bible is very clear that it is only those that have understanding(which comes from God) that can understand the number of the beast.It also says in Dan 12:10 None of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand. and You might want to ask who are the wise?
      1 Cor 3:18:Let no man deceive himself. If any man among you seemeth to be wise in this world, let him become a fool, that he may be wise.

      The wise are those who have forsaken the foolishness of their intellect and embraced the so called “foolishness” of Christs cross in order to get to know him and his words and become wise.

      2 Thess 2:10-11:10And with all “deceivableness” of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.And for this cause God shall send them “strong delusion”, that they should believe a lie:

      From the above verses You can see that it is delusion that makes the world accept the man of sin instead of Christ.If things weren’t symbolic the world wouldn’t be deceived.It is the hunger and love for Christ that makes Wise People want to know the real message behind God’s symbolic messages.Fools are self satisfied and don’t care that’s why they will be deceived.
      -Matt 13:11:”He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given”.
      -Matt 13: 13:”Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.”

      Jesus speaks to the world and the ignorant in parables(veiled words)Only those who strive to have a deeper relationship with him know his mysteries.

      • from the wind says:

        You have very strong points and even stronger scripture to back your points, but what if those microchips just so happen to have 666 or a name equal to that number?

        I believe that there are things that are hidden from the wicked because of their wickedness, but what about the righteous. If all things were meant as parables where do we stand? Is the human population of the earth deceived?

        • nadir47 says:

          Matt 24:24:”For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall “deceive” the very elect”.
          -Romans 8:6:”For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
          -1 sam 16: 7 “But the LORD said unto Samuel, Look not on his countenance, or on the height of his stature; because I have refused him: for the LORD seeth not as man seeth; for man looketh on the outward appearance, but the LORD looketh on the heart.

          I admire Your zeal to clarify issues.It is admirable that You want to have a proper understanding of God’s words in a generation that is more concerned about science and reason. Keep up the zeal.

          I can assure You 100% that the number 666 has nothing to do with microchips.It is a number of the mind.That is why the Bible categorically told us in Romans 12:2 not to be conformed to the world but be transformed by the renewing of our minds.That is also the reason why Romans 8:6 which Ive quoted above tells us that to be carnally(earthly)minded is death but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
          It is we humans that are more interested in the outer appearance.God is more interested in the condition of our hearts.He is more interested in what we worship and where our allegiance lies.That was why Jesus told the Pharisees in Matt 23: 28:”Even so ye also outwardly appear righteous unto men, but “within” ye are full of hypocrisy and iniquity”. So it is the number of our minds that shows who we are for.Not any technology on our skin.

          Many Christians today are very interested in the number 666 but few realize that God also writes Name on the foreheads of his servants who refuse the number 666:

          -Rev 14:1:”And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father’s name written in their foreheads.

          Now can I ask You a question.Do You think Gods name was written on the physical forehead of the saints or on their minds?

          -2 cor3:3Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.

          The epistle(gospel)of Christ is written by the spirit of God (not with ink)in our hearts as You can see from the above verse.

          satans kingdom is all about deception.When God was questioning eve about why she ate the fruit she said:”Because the serpent beguiled(Deceived) me”.In other words if she had known the truth she wouldn’t have eaten of it.
          Matt 24:24 which Ive quoted above tells us that the deception on earth would be so great at the end time that even the elect(the chosen followers of Christ)would have been deceived if it was possible.The elect are supposed to know about Christ ,666,God,the cross and hidden truths and yet it was going to take Gods grace for them to overcome.So it should show You that it is all about deceit ,only those people who know their God and the truth would overcome.

          Well to answer Your question about where we Christians stand if all things are meant for parables,We have to be diligent.We have to seek to know God and do things on his terms only.The bible says it is the glory of God to conceal a thing and the honor of kings (us)to search out a matter(Prov 25:2).We have to diligently seek to understand the concealed mysteries of God.

          Rely more on Gods spirit and his word when trying to understand scripture.Forget about the microchip sham.It is just a diversion to keep You from seeing the real thing.

          • from the wind says:

            Well, if the microchip theory is a sham what do you make of the rest of the prophecy

            Rev. 13:3
            And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.

            Rev. 13:15
            And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.

            Something lifeless being given life and the power to have those killed that do not worship it.
            This has to have some physical property to it. I mean to say that kill means kill. And the image has to be worshipped or rather not worshipped.

            And what about the rest of the book, what would be the symbolic meaning behind it? Would New Jerusalem just be a symbol for something?

            I don’t know if God would choose to place Him name on the foreheads of men, but the Bible says He would. I mean to say that I don’t think that the beast could be as spiritual as God. Our enemy is against our souls, but it is more fitting to say that God wrote on the heads of men and the enemy tried to copy His work.

          • nadir47 says:

            Hi,
            Once again You are taking the whole thing literally that is why You are having difficulties understanding the prophecy.Ive stated it to You many times to understand God You have to be spiritual.For example, when the Bible says in Rev 19:8: “And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: “for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints”.It doesnt mean that the saints wore physical clean white linen to fight the beast.It means they were girded with righteousness and it is with righteousness and truth that they would judge the beast.

            If You read Daniel 7 You would discover that spiritually,a Beast represents an earthly Kingdom(Government).The heads of the beast represent 7 Kingdoms (governments)that existed before the beast and wielded global authority(Rev 17:9-10).

            I also noticed that You are taking the image of the beast literally too.Let me use the biblical account of the creation story to explain what an image means to You.

            Adam was the image of God before his fall from grace(Gen 1:26-27)I.e he reflected Gods glory and his personality.When he was the image of God ,He needed to submit to Gods spirit(be reliant on God)in order to bear his image.When he chose to rebel against God,he lost the image of God’s righteousness and took on a new image:the image of sin and rebellion.

            So the image of the beast is what he represents,his personality.The Beast represents blasphemy against God and what God represents.He represents hatred for God and his saints.He represents pride and arrogance.So worshiping his image means conforming to the values he represents and accepting the world view the beast promotes.

            How can God place his name on our physical fore heads?is God flesh?Gods name is supposed to be in Your mind like i told You earlier.(In the same way Gods breathe(name) was “inside” Adam not on his physical head Gen 2:7)
            Ezekiel 36:26
            A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
            Taking scriptures literally is very detrimental to Your spiritual growth.For example,Do You actually think that the above verse means that God is going to perform heart transplants on his saints.He means he is going to renew Your heart to obey and understand his words.

            Psalm 25:14:The secret of the LORD is with them that fear him; and he will shew them his covenant.
            The secret of the Lord is with those that fear him not those who know the literal words of the Bible or those that are active in the synagogue.Fear God ask for his counsel and he will guide You.

            If You want to learn more about the identity of the beast,Read this:http://endtimedeception.ning.com/forum/topics/the-beast

          • horns4plenty says:

            Nadir47,

            I have not gotten a witness in my spirit on everything you have said, but I have think you are definitely hearing from the Lord on some things.I am not saying you are wrong on anything, but honestly I have been engaging so many fronts lately that have taken up a lot of my time and I have not been able to give this subject matter the proper time!

            Here is a few quick ideas. When Jesus came 2000 years ago for the most part everybody missed. especially God’s people. That just absolutely amazes me! Jesus was walking around right in the middle of God’s people performing some amazing signs and wonders and preaching and teaching God’s word exactly word for word and teaching God’s law as a relationship and the perfect law of love, aand they still missed it.

            I have definitely gotten a witness in my spirit that the second coming will be no different the second time around and for the most part God’s people are going to be completely clueless. Jesus repeatedly warned us not to look for physical signs and wonders. The second coming to be discerned spiritually. which to me says you better adress the conditions of peoples hearts, first in ourselves and secondly in the rest of the world.

            I will comment again on this later and finish my thoughts.

            God Bless you
            Corey

          • nadir47 says:

            Hi Corey,
            I await Your comment,However I feel it is very necessary to address some of the issues that You raised.
            Its not “getting a witness”in Your spirit that matters.It is the truth that matters and that is what can save You (John 8:32).Jesus told the Jews to search the scriptures for in them they thought they had eternal life but they were the ones that testified about Him(John 5:39).These were people who were very versed in the Torah but they relied more on the letter part of it instead Of Gods spirit.That was the reason why they couldn’t recognize him, because they tried to interpret his coming based on logic and not with the help of Gods spirit.(John 7:27)

            So You should diligently search the scriptures and ask for Gods guidance to help You to decipher the truth.You shouldn’t wait for a so called “witness” in Your spirit because Gods ways are not Your ways and will never agree with Your logic.

            While I sense that You have a good heart and are very willing to know God better,It is very erroneous of You to say that Jesus taught Gods word exactly word for word”.

            Mark 2:27:And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:
            Matt 13:11:He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.
            -Col 2: 16-17:”Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath day,Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body(reality) is of Christ.

            If Jesus taught Gods word “word for word” like You claim why didn’t he keep the sabbath?It was the same Jesus that said he didn’t come to destroy the law but to fulfill it and yet he seemingly was breaking the sabbath which is a part of the law?The truth was that He trying to show us that the sabbath is a spiritual rest.It is when we rest from our works and submit to God(Heb 4).The sabbath day was only a symbol of that rest and wasn’t the real thing. that is why col 2:16-17 (which Ive quoted above) tells us not to be concerned with the shadow but with the substance.

            -Mark2:22:”And no one pours new wine into old wineskins. If he does, the wine will burst the skins, and both the wine and the wineskins will be ruined. No, he pours new wine into new wineskins.”
            Why Do You think Jesus had to privately explain his parables to His disciples?If they were to be taken literally he wouldn’t have needed to further explain them. Also,Why do You think that he said that parables were for the outsiders and only his inner disciples were going to know the mysteries of his kingdom?It was because the mysteries were for the spiritual people who abandon their intellect to know God.These people are the born again ones.They have died to their old man.They have been renewed by his spirit.They might look like fools to the world but they are very wise in Gods sight.It is these people who can partake of Gods new wine because they have been renewed.The new wine cant be poured into old wineskins.They will resist and rebel against it They prefer their logic and reason.They prefer the symbols to the reality.They fail to understand that God is spirit and they are fallen and need to be renewed to understand and be reconciled with him.

            – Prov 1: 23:Turn you at my reproof: behold, “I will pour out my spirit unto you, I will make known my words unto you”.

            I plead with You Corey be spiritual.To be carnally minded is death.The only way to overcome the devil is by the word of God(The sword of the spirit)Let Jesus pour his spirit on You that’s the only way You can understand his words.You don’t have to agree with me but make sure You agree with Jesus and his words always.-2 cor 3: 6:Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life”It is the spirit that gives life.The letter(literal translation)Kills

          • from the wind says:

            I do not take all of Revelation literally, but I don’t take it all symbolically either. The prophecies of the book are well mapped out as to what is symbolic and what is not. I do believe that there are things concerning the beast that have to be spiritually understood. And I know that some things are symbolic, as the scripture maps it out. But that is my point, all of Revelation couldn’t be all symbolic, nor could it all be literal. For the scriptures of the book themselves prove it.

            2 Peter 1:19-21
            19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy;whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts.
            20 Knowing this first,that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
            21 For prophecy came not in old time by the will of man:but holy men of God spake (as they were)moved by the Holy Ghost.

            For you to present an all symbolic stand on the mark of the beast is to say that the Bible left every thing that was written in the darkness; when the book is called the Revelation.

            I know that there are parables and Jesus used many, but why would God have hidden that which was meant to reveal. But to get the main point…What I am asking you, since you have such a strong symbolic stance, is what does the rest of the prophecy truly mean; if God has placed His seal on the minds of men and the beast goes to do the same? If we as Christians take all matters of the prophecy for symbolic, then indeed we will have only a symbol to look forward to in a reward.

            I know we are always to be spiritually minded, but I doubt that Jesus’ parables went on for ever; there came a time when the parables were put to an end.

            Luke 8:10
            And He said, Unto you it is given to know the mysteries of the Kingdom of God; but to others in parables; that seeing they might not see, and hearing they might not understand.

            When Jesus spoke to His followers the parables where ended and He left things plain. So I doubt that the Father would leave such great prophecy to be seen and heard by followers to come (in scripture) as a parable.

            So once again I ask if the right interpretation of the scripture is what you have given, please share the rest of the interpretation of the prophecy?

            I really would like to know it, and consider it, as I see you have certain spiritual reasoning.

          • nadir47 says:

            -1 cor 2: 14:But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are “foolishness” unto him: neither can he know them, because they are “spiritually discerned”.

            Hi,
            Now as You can see from the above verse the things of God cannot be understood by the carnal mind.The verse above didn’t say some of the things of God but the things of God meaning all.So You cant understand God using Logic clear and simple.

            -2 Peter 1:19-21: We have also a more sure word of prophecy;whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts. Knowing this first,that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. For prophecy came not in old time by the will of man:but holy men of God spake (as they were)moved by the Holy Ghost.

            You quoted very nice verses and im going to expand on them a little.Now what do You think Peter means when he says the prophecy which comes from the Holy spirit not man is as a “light” that shines in a “dark” place?He is trying to show us that it is the sure word of prophecy that comes from the Holy spirit(not man or intellect)that gives light(understanding)to the darkness (ignorance) of our hearts (spiritual mind).So in other words what Peter meant was that The Holy spirit (not the private interpretation of men) is the Light that shines in our dark hearts to give us understanding of Christs words until the day dawns(perfection,when Christ takes total control of us)and the day star(Jesus Christ)Arises in our hearts.So the aim of prophecy is to bring the saints to a perfect knowledge of the true :Jesus Christ(This can only be accomplished by the Holy Spirit)

            The book is called revelation true but that doesn’t mean it is a revelation to the carnal mind.Gods principles do not change.If it was a revelation for carnal people who don’t want to be spiritual,Then majority of people wouldn’t worship the beast and receive its mark because majority of people know about the number 666 even non Christians.

            It is the spirit of God that makes facts manifest not the letter of the word.You have to be humble enough to accept that or else You would think that when Jesus says we must eat his flesh and drink his blood to be a part of Him he means we should cut his physical body and drink his physical blood to be a part of him.You would also think that when Jesus says we should take up our cross and follow him he means that we should cut wood make it in form of a cross and walk around.There are deeper meaning to Gods words that is why after Jesus told the crowd parables he found it meet to explain the deeper meanings to his disciples and “The Parable understanding ” hasn’t ended for carnal people because they are carnally minded and the Bible says only spiritual discerning people understand God.As long as You are carnal You will never understand the message behind the parable.That is why Paul said in 2 cor 3: 14:But their minds were blinded: “for until this day” remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.The vail(the carnal mind that keeps us from seeing the truth)is taken away when we submit to Christ and are spiritual like He is

            The things of God are symbolic,but not symbolic based on my interpretation of them or Your interpretation of them but on the spirits interpretation of them.So seek to know the mind of God and His interpretation and judge every word anyone tells You on the basis of scripture.No matter how symbolic Gods words are they will always be justifiable by scripture.That is why Jesus told the Jews to search the scripture for it testified of Him.Even though he was a Spiritual Man everything He said and did agreed with scripture .The Bible says the spirit shall lead us into all truth.So seek the spirit of God do not be satisfied with the letter of the word it kills.

          • from the wind says:

            My point is that there are many symbolic interpretations in the world today. Some of them go way beyond what God says in His Word. Many people over symbolize God’s Word and in the process dilute the Gospel and prophecies. For instance, the Jehovah’s witnesses, while they are well known for their door to door evangelism, they present a symbolic message that pretty much rewrites the Word of God: Instead of teaching of an eternal punishment for Satan an evil unbelievers; they over symbolize and ultimately teach that God will simply have a seperation from them or they will just be seperate from God. Problem being, their punishment then becomes their current state.

            Maybe you see this differently,but carnal minds are not just unable to understand, they see the truth before them and refuse it. Therefore God’s Word being revealed doesn’t mean carnal minded people will receive it and know the truth.

            But I don’t want this to be a great debate between brethren. So I will say this to close;I will consider that you could be right. But without the full interpretation of the book being given people won’t be likely to believe what you are saying. But may God lead us both to the truth and may we and the rest of the Body come to be on one accord in it.

      • JustAGuy says:

        I like your conclusion. Just want to add my own perspective and musings to the conversation….

        You wrote: “In order to understand Gods words perfectly we need to have a spiritual understanding of them and not a logical understanding.”

        This statement brings to mind a few other scriptures. If we are to have a spiritual understanding, it will come from within the framework of obedience to God’s commandments. “Psa 111:10 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom: a good understanding have all they that do his commandments: his praise endureth for ever.” We cannot apply ourselves to the understanding of prophecy and hope to save ourselves. Understanding comes from walking in God’s law of Love to God and neighbor. By applying our hearts to the first works, God gives understanding.

        Some seek after understanding all the details as if knowing these things they might manuever their way into being at the right place at the right time to receive Jesus at His return. When Jesus comes, the angels will gather God’s elect from the four corners of the earth. If we have kept the faith and done the first works, the Lord will gather us up. If we have merely positioned ourselves through our own understanding, we can jump as high as we can at Christ’s return and still not be gathered up. “Let the righteous be righteous still, and let the wicked be wicked still…”

        As has been pointed out, the wise will understand because it is God who gives understanding. We cannot take wisdom from the storehouses of God by our proper use of logic. Fear God and do His will and He will give His own the understanding they need in the hour they need it. I think if He revealed it too soon, the word would get out and people would simply find a way to pervert it and subvert it in the flesh. The understanding will come to God’s children in the hour of temptation when they need it to come. This is walking by faith in my opinion.Blessings and Peace,
        Timothy

        • nadir47 says:

          Of course the spiritual understanding is to come from God.One thing many Christians fail to realize is that We are flesh and God is spirit.We can never understand God with our intellect.Only with the guidance of His Spirit.Many try day and night to imagine God and his words based on their own imaginations of Him instead of seeing him as he really is and that why they miss the reality. Dan 11:32:”And such as do wickedly against the covenant shall he corrupt by flatteries: but the people that do know their God shall be strong, and do exploits”.It is people that know their God that shall be strong in the end time.Many people claim to worship God but very few people know him.How can You worship someone that You do not even know?

          That is also why the Bible says in 1 cor 2: 11 :”For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God”.Only God knows the things of God and only He can reveal it to us if we submit to him.

          While it is true that the wise would understand because God gives understanding,The wise are also supposed to be diligent in trying to understand What God means by his words.They are not to assume that God will reveal it to them without them searching.The proof of desire is in the pursuit.That is why the Bible says in Prov 25:2:”It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out a matter”.and also 2 Timothy 2:15:
          “Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth”. So we are to search out and study the meaning of Gods mysteries and accept what he tells us no matter how hard or unacceptable they might seem to be.

  8. lookinforacity says:

    Well, if you want to be doing math problems then lets try to at least get the name right.
    Immanuel (Hebrew) – – Emmanuel (Greek)

    • nadir47 says:

      Well i wasn’t “solving math problems”i was simply showing that the gematria for Jesus name in greek isn’t 666.

  9. DeepSeeker says:

    nirdir47

    Well let me see; if I remember correctly, God is sovereign in all maters.Not only is He sovereign in all matters, He controls all maters.

    Rom 13:1 Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.

    Col 1:16-17 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

    Jdg 9:23 Then God sent an evil spirit between Abimelech and the men of Shechem; and the men of Shechem dealt treacherously with Abimelech:

    1Sa 16:14 But the Spirit of the LORD departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the LORD troubled him.

    Isa 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

    Yes,from reading the scriptures it is seen that indeed, God and His Christ Jesus do all things that are done. They also permit all things or not permit them !

    DeepSeeker

    • nadir47 says:

      -1 john 5: 19:”We know that we are children of God, and that the whole world is under the control of the evil one.

      -Rev 13:2:The beast I saw resembled a leopard, but had feet like those of a bear and a mouth like that of a lion. The “dragon”(not God) gave the beast his power and his throne and great authority.

      It is true that God is sovereign in all matters.However You show ignorance of the scriptures when You say that God is in control of all matters on earth.The Bible categorically states that the whole world is under the control of the evil one.How can God be in control of a sinful and rebellious generation that hates him?or are You trying to say God is evil?If every earthly system is of God, Why did God demand Shedrach Meshach and Abednego not to bow down to the image of Nebuchadnezzar?Why where we warned never to bow down to the image of the beast?Why did the bible tell us that all that is in the world is not of the father but of the world and hence we should not love it or the things in it?

      The bible clearly states that Satan is the god of this wicked system 2 cor 4:4.However God permits his reign for a season to fulfill his purposes and to try his saints.

      1 cor 5:5:To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus”.

      So God and Satan are two different entities on earth.God is light Satan is darkness.God uses Satan to try and refine his saints and since God is superior to Satan,He has no choice but to stay within the boundaries of what God instructs.That is why Satan couldn’t touch job without God permitting it and the purpose for allowing Satan to touch him was to refine job and make him value God more than anything else.

      1 John 1:5:”This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.

      So if God is light and good and has no darkness at all and Satan is darkness and evil as the Bible claims,Then it goes to show You that God is not and can never be the originator of evil.Satan is the originator of evil and darkness.God only uses Satan to accomplish his purposes.

  10. DeepSeeker says:

    Indeed this number has received many false ideas over the years. I, for many years, ignored it. I did this because I knew I did not have the correct answer to it. Of late the Spirit has given me a new insight number via another writer, who in my humble opinion has it correct !

    The writer is one, Bonnie Gaunt. She has writer numerous books on Gematria of the Hebrew and Greek alphabets. Gematria indeed reveals much ! Remember, it says: “let him who has wisdom calculate the number of the beast” . This in itself is a hint of mathematics.

    I can not get into a deep discussion of what is written in her books without her permission. I will say this however. She points out very clearly that this number ( as hinted to in your blog), is the number pertaining to mankind; only it’s on man. That man is Jesus Christ!

    666 is the Gematria value of His name. It is also, as you have pointed out; the number assigned to man and all that pertains to him.

    Here are a few of the Gematria meanings for 666.

    666 =

    [1] Jehovah God that created the heavens ( Isa 42:5)

    [2] Your great and fearful name

    [3] Head of the corner ( Mth 21:42) ( Psl 118:22)

    [4] He that made the earth ( Jer 10:12)

    [5] Your great and fearful name

    [6] Let there be lights

    Let there be lights; from Genesis, the light from God through His Christ Jesus who at that time was in a different form.

    I hope this helps to bring a clearer view of this number. Also the word beast. It is used for an evil one or ones as well as a bad event caused by some force.
    ” All things were created by Him and for Him … . ”

    Blessing in The Christ
    DeepSeeker

    • nadir47 says:

      Well 666 is definitely not the number of Jesus or else God wouldn’t have forbidden us from accepting it.The Bible categorically tells us that 666 is the number of the beasts name which the fallen world would be forced to accept (Rev 13:17-18).
      The saints of God have Jesus and his Fathers name written on their foreheads(Rev 14:1)and not 666.
      For Your information the Gematria value of Christ name in greek is 888 not 666:Jesus = IhsouV = 10 + 8 + 200 + 70 + 400 + 200 = 888 .However, as true Christians we should rely solely on Gods word and His Spirit when interpreting His Words.-
      Prov 1: 23 says:Turn you at my reproof: behold, I will pour out my spirit unto you, I will make known my words unto you”.And also: 1 cor 2:11 says:” For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
      Only Gods spirit can reveal his word to us Gematria and other man made inventions are ineffective in revealing the truth to us.

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