Young Man embraces Hyper-Grace Teaching, Goes on Drugs, Dies of Overdose

Hello Michael; I just read the article on Joseph Prince and it moved me because I didn’t know anyone else felt the same as I. My son-in-law began following Ps Prince about 2 years ago. He became very worldly after in-grafting himself into the new GRACE movement, that teaches sin has no consequences anymore because Christ paid for it. He committed adultery and produced a love child from it. He got on drugs all while closely following Ps Prince. I tried to talk to him about the God who he once knew, his reply was, ‘I don’t believe like that anymore.” This started in 2011 and on Jan. 27, 2013, he overdosed. I tried so many times to tell him about the msg Ps Prince gives is incorrect. I can never have another chance to talk to him, but I thank you for exposing false doctrine to the public. Thank you again and God bless.

R.
(Name withheld by request)

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About Michael Fackerell

The Christian faith is about Jesus. He came to save the lost. About Jesus Christ, Bible teaching, Testimonies, Salvation, Prayer, Faith, Networking.

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  1. I have questions about the whole thing… I sat under Joseph Prince’s ministry for more than 12 years. I have observed the lives of people in there as well as my own life. I also contrast Christians from another denomination as well as non-believers.

    I find it all… questionable…
    It’s articles like this that make me reflect and think about all the experiences I went through, and the people in NC church I have met over the past decade or so.

    – People who are in debt and never change their spending habits and live life asking God for debt-cancellation-miracle to debt-cancellation-miracle.
    – People who don’t understand the decency of keeping trust in a romantic relationship, and continue to do things that break that trust, jumping from relationship to relationship.
    – People who seeing other people with career success from SHEER hard work, speak as if on “God’s behalf” and curse it as a thing of “human flesh”, refusing to acknowledge the need to read, to study, to learn.
    – People who seeing others struggle with personal problems, would rather use their faith to believe God for a Maserati or Lamborghini than to pray for their fellow brother. They do, just not with the same enthusiasm. Half hearted efforts at brotherly love.
    – People who, after learning from the church how to dress well with expensive clothes, change their behavior. Become snobbish.

    Are they isolated incidents? I still grapple with this.

    I have to pick up the pieces and start from ground zero. And I’m rebuilding my faith starting from interpretation of scripture, and questioning everything.

    My life is not great after so many years there. I regretted getting involved with them.

    I spent all my time there, I lost many good secular friendships. Friends who will lend a helping hand, regardless of your religion. Under that ministry, people treat you differently according to your social status. They may say otherwise, but it’s not what people say, but what people do that matters.

    Questionable. Very questionable.
    I could be wrong, but I’m not taking anymore risks.

    • Brenda Sumrall says:

      I remember as a young person seeing one of the deacon’s in my church outside smoking a cigarette. I didn’t think Christians were supposed to smoke. It was a big disappointment to me to a see him doing that. I learned a valuable lesson that day. This was the lesson: You don’t let other Christians set the standard for you. If you do, they may disappoint you. I’m not saying all of them will, but you do not know who will until it happens. I’ve said this many times. People come into the kingdom of God from different backgrounds. They bring different levels of maturity with them. As they grow, they learn what to do and what not to do. Therefore, they will make mistakes along the way. You will not find one congregation that is perfect no matter where you go. You have to learn to love flawed people.

      • I totally agree with what you say here Brenda.

        I will add this: the church is called to devote itself to prayer, so that people can easily receive grace so that they can be transformed more readily.

      • I understand not letting ONE or two Christians in church define your Christian outlook, but we are also to judge the fruits of the teaching.

        You take a group of them and give some time, and observe the outcome. You then take this group and contrast it with other believers from other denominations AND with the people of the world.

        I don’t have much good fruits, and everything tanked. It wasn’t a disappointment. It was a catastrophe. There began my process of self reflection and reflecting on the teaching. And you can’t reflect on the teaching without taking heed of the Bible that say, “By their fruits, you will know them”.

        I’m still in my process of recovery and so far I am VERY fortunate to have made it out alive with my faith intact. I still have a few Christian friends who are being real friends, who support me. I am ever so thankful and grateful to God for them.

    • Your experience resonates with mine. I have hung around that place for a longer time (15 years to be precise). Over this period, I had spiritual detours that took me to other churches. On hindsight, there were legitimate reasons that pushed me out of NCC’s door (many of which were theological issues, or the lack of sound doctrine), but i returned each time, ready to forgive and start afresh. Perhaps I had gone on a limp, i was a cop out, who chose the easy route back to my comfort zone. But on the last occasion, I told myself, upon the conviction of the Holy Spirit, that enough was enough.

      I have seen exactly the same things you mentioned: unrepentant mammon worshippers given to lust of the flesh. At this point, I do not judge them, for they are all willing victims who indulge their flesh.

      I am more concerned about how heresy is spreading like wildfire, and is being re-exported to the land of its origin. In a society where no one wants to be left behind, it is not hard to understand why the health and wealth heresy has caught on in a big way. If you look at its roots, historically, its just a means to an end, a way of trying to recapture the American Dream that was slipping away after social liberalism had failed, and American intellectualism was shutting down. Health and wealth is a convenient road to success without much human effort. Its focus on the material, sensual and pleasure goes back to a carnal, almost shamanistic appeal to the supernatural. The weekly sermons, packaged like TV shows, are no more than exercises in helping people attain catharsis. Instead of watching a movie, people at New Creation attend Prince’s sermons to sublimate their deepest desires. No wonder there is no power over the world. There is no transformation of the heart, no genuine repentance (metanoia is not just a change of mind, it involves godly sorrow), and of course no regard for God’s laws.

  2. Johnathan Meris says:

    A lot of younger and older people are looking for love and understanding. If they feel even remotely understood, they might be willing to embrace any kind of doctrine or teacher. Humans are by nature very week and like to commit idolatry, clinging to men and their teachings.

    Grace can fall like the rain but God rains on the just and unjust alike so everyone has the chance to stand under the rain, no matter whether they are worthy or not. Not everyone however possesses grace in their innermost being. The wiser among us will know who is truly spiritual, not by what you claim to believe but by how you treat others in this world. How you treat others is a the sign of your spiritual maturity.

    The whole of the law and the prophets is summed up by doing for others what you want them to do for you” Its not summed up by believing this or that doctrine about grace , reading this or that book or following this or that pastor.

    • Just wanted to say thank you to Jonathan Melissa for being wise. Less words but wise for sure and May God be with us all in these last days, trust the Spirit He gave you and follow His words. I am so sorry for the loss of the man’s son in this article and for the family. Never Stop praying because we all need help and guidance.

  3. Brenda Sumrall says:

    Michael

    I went back to the site I gave you. If you go there you will see a section on the right called My Archives. In his archives for January 2010, you will see that he has Matthew 7:21-23 listed in his archives. I can tell by the other titles that this is his site, so he had to have wrote it.

    • I can tell you that I wrote that article and I wrote it quite a number of years ago. I actually initially published it as a straight HTML document before I used wordpress and before I used drupal – so it had to have been written before 2007. I don’t think its his site. I think its a site of one of his many internet worker bees. Joseph Prince is a multi-millionaire with a huge budget for IT and wouldn’t be the one building a blogspot site. But maybe one of the many people he employs to build his online presence lifted my content.

  4. Brenda Surmall says:

    Michael

    What did you think about what Joseph Prince said about Matthew 7:21-23? Did you go to the site where his comments came from? Anyway, here it is again if you need it:

    http://josephprincenotes.blogspot.com/2010/01/matthew-721-23-new-international.html

  5. Brenda Sumrall says:

    I read your article and it was well written. I appreciate your comments.

  6. Brenda Sumrall says:

    Thanks for responding to my questions. I would like to repeat something I said in my last post. I said, “Of course there are lessons for us Gentiles in this book also. I’m not denying that.” I just wanted to be sure that you saw that.

    What is your interpretation of the following Scriptures?

    HEBREWS 10:1-3

    1) For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.

    2) For then would they not have ceased to be offered? Because that the worshippers once purged should have had no conscience of sins.

    3) But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.

    In particular, I would like for you to comment on this phrase: “Because that the worshippers once purged should have had no conscience of sins.”

  7. Brenda Sumrall says:

    To Michael

    I don’t get the connection between Mark 16:9-20 and Romans 8:1. Could you explain what the connection is there?

    What particular translations did Westcott and Hort promote? I would be interested in knowing.

    When I used the word “questionable” I was simply talking about the fact that some manuscripts have that phrase and some do not. I hope that clears that up.

    Here is one of your comments: “We are not free to become lawless when we come into Christ. Instead, we go after the Spirit, and put to death the works of the flesh.” I agree with you totally on this. Yea! We are in agreement.

    All sin is committed through the will. We all have a will and we all choose what to do with that will. We either choose what God wants us to do or we choose what we want to do. The Devil is a good example of this. His “I will” is what got him into trouble. He got the ball rolling and passed his sorry attitude on to mankind.

    I read the Scripture you pointed out in Hebrews and I have yet to meet one Christian that has actually done the things mention therein. Here is what I am talking about.

    1) Trodding underfoot the Son of God

    2) Counting the blood of the covenant an unholy thing

    3) Doing despite to the Spirit of grace

    This was written mainly to Jewish Christians who were wavering between their Christian faith and Judaism. It’s not about breaking the commandments. This is about apostasy. In order for a Jew to go back to Judaism they had to renounce Christ and everything associated with Him. Since the title of the book is Hebrews, I am assuming that it was written for their benefit. Of course there are lessons for us Gentiles in this book also. I’m not denying that.

    Matthew has a warning that what we say and do for Jesus doesn’t count unless we have a relationship with Him. We can call Him Lord. We can cast out devils, prophesy, and do wonderful works, but that does not take the place of a relationship. This is not about losing one’s salvation; it’s about never having salvation.

    • Hi Brenda,
      Thanks for your reply.
      The connection between Mark 16:9-20 and Romans 8:1 is simply this: the Greek manuscripts that do not have Romans 8:1b are the same ones that do not have Mark 16:9-20. These are based on the Codex Sinaiticus and the Codex Vaticanus. If these manuscripts, which are the “older copies” you referred to, are incomplete, then if you throw out Romans 8:1b as unreliable you also have to throw out Mark 16:9-20 and also the story in John 8 about the woman caught in adultery also.

      The translations based on these couple of manuscripts I refer to use the Nestle-Aland Greek text which is similar to the Westcott/Hort edition. These translations include notably the New International Version, the New American Standard Version, the New Revised Standard Version and in fact most of the ones out there nowadays EXCEPT for the King James Version, The New King James Version, The World English Bible, the Modern Literal Version and the like. The New International Version is a very popular Bible version but it waters down a lot of passages and includes many mistakes, as well as being based on these defective texts.

      You don’t have to do items 1, 2 and 3 to be in danger according to Hebrews 10:26. All that is necessary is to keep on sinning wilfully. The book of Hebrews was written to us all – or it wouldn’t be in the New Testament. You can take it all or leave it all. I would not encourage anyone to disregard the many warnings in the Book of Hebrews about giving up faith in Christ. I think it is extremely perilous and leads to a Laodicean spirit at best. Do you really think that God would waste his time putting something so prominently in the New Testament that you and I would never ever see happen? That’s a gamble with fire.

      There is always this dodge about people who “never even had salvation”. The point is, these people THOUGHT they had salvation. They probably thought that the fact that the Spirit of God was working through them was proof enough that they were in Christ. After all, many people today don’t even have this kind of evidence that Christ is working through them. They never cast out demons because they are enslaved by them, they can’t heal the sick because they never consecrated themselves to this kind of faith, they can’t prophesy and so on, they are slaves to sin and can’t overcome it. Shall these persons now presume that they are saved just because they think they are? Do a study on the people Jesus says He will throw into hell. It includes a lot of people who were his servants, but were unfaithful. Instead of coming up with theology to discount what Jesus says, why not be safer and BELIEVE what Jesus said and says. Thanks.

  8. childofjesus says:

    I found Lord Jesus reading NIV translation. In Bible (God’s Word), from the beginning to the end, none of the verses contradict with each other. One who understands God’s nature from the Bible, it is very easy for them to conclude right. However, I now see the danger of various translations. Michael Hoggard is a pastor (I listen to his messages on youtube) says KJV is the infallible Word of God and the other versions out there are propagated by OCCULTISTS to corrupt the Word of God (May be the translations are done by OCCULTISTS themselves). Some of the symbols used by OCCULTISTS are seen on the cover page of the Bible (new translations). Folks we need to understand that Satan’s agenda is to bring confusion and deception by adding/deleting the Word of God, which he has attained to some extent through false teachers. Beware of false teachers who twist the Word of God to suit their itching ears.

  9. Brenda Sumrall says:

    I looked back over your November 21 reply. After doing all of my research, I understood the two phrases that you used at the beginning. Here they are: “correct text” and “majority text”. As I said in my second post the phrase, “who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit” is questionable. Apparently you tend to believe that the phrase belongs there. That’s fine.

    I went back to Romans chapter 7. In Romans 7:1, it says “that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth”. In verses 2 and 3, Paul gives the example of marriage to explain what he means by that. In essence he said that as long as a person’s spouse lives he or she is bound by the law to that spouse. If the spouse dies their obligation to each other is over, he or she is free to marry another.

    In verse 4, Paul takes that example and carries that idea over into salvation. Every person is born under the Law. That means everyone is bound to the Law, just like a married person is bound to his or her spouse. However, the Law shows no mercy, grace, or favor. It is do, or die. Is the Law bad? No. The Law is good. It’s the condemnation that is bad. It kills. The problem is this: How does one get out from under the condemnation of the Law? A person does it by accepting Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior. When a person accepts Him as Lord and Savior that person identifies with Jesus’ death, burial, and resurrection. This is confirmed by Paul in Romans 6:6 and Colossians 2:12.

    Paul, speaking to the believer says, “ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to Him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God ( Romans 7:4). Here Paul says that the believer is “dead to the law.” Romans 7, verse 6 echoes the same thing.

    Paul goes on to say that before he heard about the law that he was alive, but when he encountered the law, he died. Why? He came under condemnation. Nevertheless, he discovered the remedy for his wretched condition through Jesus Christ.

    After that I come to Romans 8:1 which says, “There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.” As I said the last phrase is questionable. There were at least nine translations on http://www.blueletterbible.org that left that particular phrase out. This is probably why Joseph Prince does not use that phrase. The same phrase is found in Romans 8:4. The indication in verses 3 and 4 is that Jesus condemned sin in the flesh to fulfill the righteousness of the law in the believer. I prefer to go along with Jesus when He said, “He that believeth is not condemned (John 3:18a)”.

    • I pointed out in my article here, the Majority text of the Bible is quoted in 2nd century writings as Scripture. There are really important passages in it, like Mark 16:9-20. These verses stand or fall with the second half of Romans 8:1. I believe the devil influenced people to mess with the Scriptures a little bit and make a few bad copies which water down the Bible on issues relating to the power of God and holy living. That suits the devil. But these inferior manuscripts in the modern translations were not even read until some OCCULTISTS Westcott and Hort got involved in promoting them. And then Bible translations such as the NIV and most of the flaky ones you would have found online on blueletterbible were based on these wrong texts.

      Satan has always begun his temptations with “Did God REALLY say?” (see Genesis 3) and you are saying Romans 8:1b is QUESTIONABLE. Satan’s next statement to Eve was that if they deliberately sinned “YOU WILL NOT SURELY DIE”, and this is really the issue I have with preachers like Joseph Prince. The idea is you can sin wilfully as a justified in Christ believer who walks according to the flesh, and even keep on sinning, and “YOU WILL NOT SURELY DIE”. This is Satan, right there. Why change tactics if the old ones from the Garden work so well?

      The rest of your comment contains a partial truth. See, as believers in Christ, we are united to Christ in his death and resurrection. We are not SEEKING RIGHTEOUSNESS by seeking the LAW OF GOD. We are not striving in our own strength to keep the law. That is not Christianity. However, in actually putting to death the deeds of the body by the Spirit, WE WILL LIVE. We die not only to the legalistic system, but also to sin. We are not free to become lawless when we come into Christ. Instead, we go after the Spirit, and put to death the works of the flesh.

      The rest of Romans 8 bears out everything I am saying. For example in Romans 8:5 it says, “Those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit.” Romans 8 goes on to say in verses 12-14: ”

      Consequently, brethren, we are debtors but not to the flesh, not to live according to the flesh; 8:13 for* if you* live according to the flesh, you* are about to die; but if you* put to death the practices of the body by the Spirit, you* will live. 8:14 For* as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God.

      Nothing could be clearer and this perfectly harmonises both with the second part of verse 1 which the devil wanted out, as well as Hebrews 10:26-39 and Matthew 7:21-23 in which Jesus and the writer of Hebrews explicitly designate HELL as the place where unrepentant wilful sinners end up. And the point is, both of those passages were written to CHRISTIANS. The weight of the entire Bible is against the false and damnable heresies of Joseph Prince. It is VERY dangerous to take sides with someone who turns the grace of God into a license for sin.

      • The main promblem is the wrong def. of grace.The proper def. can be found in the greek dic. The devine influnce on the heart and the outward appearance in the life [Without faith there is know need for grace.eph.2;8-9.OLD TEST. GRACE=FAVER.Newtest.the devine power of God so by the same power that JESUS was able to do His farther’s will,so have we.Jn.1;14grace is the power to walk in the spirit & not walk in the lust of the flesh.Grace & truth married.

  10. Brenda Sumrall says:

    This is what Joseph Prince said, “The condemnation for my sins and yours has fallen upon Jesus. And because it has fallen on Jesus, it will never fall on me. There is therefore now no condemnation…” These statements are based on Roman 8:1 and John 3:18.

    I think there is some confusion here. There is a difference between the word “condemnation” and the word “consequences”. You might want to verify this by looking up those two words. Once a person is saved that person comes out from under condemnation. Condemnation of what?–the condemnation of the Law. The saved person is now under Grace. However, sin still has consequences, even under Grace. But, it does not have eternal consequences for those under Grace. It does for the unsaved person, but not the believer. I’m talking about ETERNAL consequences. Consequences are based on cause and effect. Not being under condemnation means a person is not guilty.

    Grace is Jesus Christ. The believer is under the covering of Jesus Christ. He’s the righteous judge. If says we are not condemned, then we are not. I have never seen the phrase, “you are not condemned if…” If you find one in the Bible let me know.

    I realize that a lot of trails could come off of this, but I am not going to pursue them.

    • Romans 8:1 in the correct text – Majority text – says that there is now no condemnation for those in Christ Jesus WHO DO NOT WALK ACCORDING TO THE FLESH BUT ACCORDING TO THE SPIRIT.

      There is your IF. Now, 1 John also says that he who abides in Him does not sin. Its this idea that you can sin away as much as you please and go to heaven afterwards is the issue at stake. That doctrine simply cannot be defended from Scripture unless you redefine the word GRACE. You also have to redefine salvation for that matter. Because Jesus saves people from their sins, not IN their sins.

      Entry into a justified state is not by works – how could it be? But if a person disobeys Jesus wilfully, constantly and has no fear of God, they will go to hell, because Jesus never promised you could go to heaven and be Lord of your own life. See Matthew 7:21-23. Clearly the Jesus of Joseph Prince and the Jesus of Matthew 7:21-23 (really all the four gospels) are not the same person in reality.

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