Our place in the scheme of things

In our galaxy alone there are over a hundred-billion stars. There are over a hundred-billion galaxies in the known universe. In comparison to the grand scheme of things, I can’t even begin to comprehend exactly how small I am. Anytime I think about these things, I am put into a state of awe. I am impassioned by the majesty of the natural world. The Earth itself is so diverse and amazing that it can keep me up at night thinking about how ecosystems and genetic diversity play out and have played out for the last three or four billion years.

Our universe is 13.7 billion years old, which is another number so large the human mind can’t comprehend it. What’s more interesting to me is that Sol, our local star, is only 4.57 billion years old. It’s a third generation star, which means that it and the rest of our solar system is made up of material from a star that sat in this same spot and then died, twice. I often wonder if life had managed to evolve on a planet rotating around the first or second generation Sol. Maybe that life had reached the stars and colonized this whole galaxy, only to eventually die out in the billions of years that have passed since their first sentient thought.

This seems like a lot of rambling but my point is this: the universe is exorbitantly large and remarkably old. Our entire civilization, whether we leave Earth or not, will be more than lucky to even last a blinks worth of time to this universe. I think that one of the most repugnant things about most organized religion is the kind of self centered id they have about our place in this world. The whole universe was created so that our puny planet could come forth nine billion years later, and we puny humans could come about in another four billion years after that? That is a kind of egocentrism and arrogance that even an atheist could never have. I find all of that incredibly unlikely. However, I do feel fortunate to have been able to witness as much as I have so far, and I can only hope to see more of the wonders the natural world has to offer.

What do YOU think?

comments

Comments

  1. even a small house cann’t be formed of it’s own. We have to built it. If so how such things can be formed on it’s own. That to so perfect. sun’s light in the morning and moon’s light at night, rotation of earth by itself and around sun, perfect temp,pressure to live…….. Even many times i wonder what a perfect body we have, eyes to see, nose to breath,….beautiful digestive n productive system, can this things be formed just by physics,chem n bio.? Where does this physics, chemistry,biology come from?

    • I refer you to my blog entry,

      “Our universe is 13.7 billion years old, which is another number so large the human mind can’t comprehend it. What’s more interesting to me is that Sol, our local star, is only 4.57 billion years old. It’s a third generation star, which means that it and the rest of our solar system is made up of material from a star that sat in this same spot and then died, twice”.

      We can explain pretty much everything from the first few milliseconds of the big bang. Then there was a long, long time befire the first living cell appeared 3 billion years ago. That is all it would take. Everything could have originated from that one living cell. As I see it, God had two things to do, light the touchpaper to start the big bang (having put the laws of physics in place first) and then reappear 10 billion years later to breathe life into the primeval soup. Everything else can be explained scientifically.

      I agree, the chances of all of this happening are infantesimally small but then the universe is infantesimally big. The more I understand all the things that needed to happen for me to be here, the more I value life and the more special I feel.

      You see beautiful things but don’t forget the parasites and viruses that have killed and caused suffering to millions. The humble mosquito has embarked on a killing campaign better than any despot has ever achieved.

      Saying God did it just causes another set of questions. Should we stop research and asking questions aboout what we do not yet know because you have your truth?

      • jesseedavis says:

        …that you don’t really need us Yiggoto. You are honestly creating the arguments against Atheistic beliefs yourself. Let me point this out to you so you can reword it and change things around for us.

        We can explain pretty much everything from the first few milliseconds of the big bang. Then there was a long, long time befire the first living cell appeared 3 billion years ago.

        Everything could have originated from that one living cell.

        the chances of all of this happening are infantesimally small but then the universe is infantesimally big.

        Just all this alone creates a theory that not only can and will never be proven, but it is based on opinion and frankly, it really seems like you are trying to explain everything without the evidence that we have already found. I don’t speak for everyone that chooses to believe along the lines that you do, but I do see that you have not presented yourself with actual scientific fact. You are arguing from a scientific standpoint, but either refuse or see no need to use scientific fact to support your view.

        Just to point something else out to you, that you may not have noticed.

        As I see it, God had two things to do, light the touchpaper to start the big bang (having put the laws of physics in place first) and then reappear 10 billion years later to breathe life into the primeval soup. Everything else can be explained scientifically.

        You have admitted yourself that God is definitely needed for this all to have kicked off in the first place, and that He was also needed to be present when that one-celled organism turned into a multiple-celled organism. You may want to explain where Atheism comes into your argument.

      • Timothy Luke says:

        Yigotto,

        It takes more faith to believe this complex and ordered universe comes from a single stupid, non-intelligent, blind, deaf and dumb cell without gender, than to believe it comes from one who is greater than the sum of all…. I commend you on your great faith, but I question your reason….
        You keep blaming God for the work of Satan who perverted creation. IF you look at prophecy you will see when sin is dealt with, the animal kingdom will also be restored to being non-carnivorous. Why a person would rant and rail against the solution of the very problems they are ticked off about is beyond me….

        Tim

        • Well said, Tim! It’s amazing to me that anyone couldn’t see how a human’s conscience, emotions, dreams, nightmares, and imaginations can be explained by anything other than a Creator who is intelligent, eternal, and infinite. Or the complexities of a human body. No one can be brainwashed into believing in a Creator when there is so much evidence out there to prove it (including the ancient manuscripts, Jesus’ empty tomb, etc). My conscience proves it to me. I officially became a Christian last summer but I very much had an awareness of God since I was a kid. No one forced any belief on me. In fact, even my Christian friends/roommates rarely ever talked about their religion. It was the Lord who led me to the truth and that was after I had graduated college when I was no longer around any Christians.

          Another reason I KNOW Jesus Christ died on the cross for me and that God DOES exist. In the Bible it says “By whose stripes, you were healed” (1 Peter 2:24). Recently, I decided to ask God to heal my eyes. I have been wearing corrective lenses since I was 5 (I’m now 24). My vision was very bad and even started to get worse in my teens. I can tell you that God’s not slack on His promises because He indeed healed my eyes. My vision has improved tremendously. I can walk around with my glasses off and read my computer screen, Bible, other things. That once giant blur that was in front of my eyes has been slowly lifted up every day. I have not done anything different to my eyes, I have not yet been to an eye doctor, I have not had any work done on them. This was God’s healing. Not that I expect you to believe me, Yiggoto but the day after I had asked for my healing, I took my glasses off, stared at the huge blur on my computer screen, when one single word just popped out for me. This was a supernatural experience that would NEVER have happened if I hadn’t asked for my healing. The word would then go back out of focus. This process would continue as I kept focusing on another word (eventually a whole sentence would come into focus). At the present time, I can sit at a further distance from my computer and Bible and see perfectly. Every day my vision is improving. (Sometimes people have an immediate manifestation of their healing, other times it is a slower process. For me it’s something that is being manifested at a slower process but I know what God has already done for my eyes, simply because 1. My vision has improved tremendously 2. The Bible already says I was healed when Jesus died on the cross for me and 3. I BELIEVE it. I am learning patience and look forward to the day where I will have my FULL vision.)

          God also healed my seasonal allergies and menstrual cramps. My seasonal allergies used to be so bad (both late spring and late summer) where I normally couldn’t go a day without taking Claritin. I no longer take medicine and I no longer walk around with tissues. He’s answered other prayers of mine as well.

          I know many people here have been blessed with healings and various miracles that could only be explained by God.

          • Timothy Luke says:

            Sara, I am happy to hear of your continued progress! God is so good. Thank you for sharing what the Lord is continuing to do in your life. He wants to give us so much if we don’t underestimate His goodness and not ask, nor believe….

    • Timothy Luke says:

      Yigotto,

      I am pulling your posts as of now. I have pulled your last two posts because you are using your privilege here to bad mouth God and berate Him. That is blasphemy and you have added enough disjointed thought and ridicule to your account on judgment day. I do not care to assist you in paving your personal highway to hell any further. I was hoping you might ease up and perhaps remain respectful of the God we love and serve on Christian-Faith.com. It is our prayer you would turn from your sin and be saved, but that is to happen elsewhere it seems.

      Tim

      • jesseedavis says:

        I hope that at some point, things will become clear to this man. I pray that it will be soon, but I know better. Lord….

      • Well Bro Tim ,

        It is clear that this man is hurting very badly.
        Many of us have been that way earlier , ….

        when one hits rock bottom ,…..and then tries Jesus and
        God ,….and it works , ……..that is when the truth reaches him(or her)

        It is best we pray that Yigotto comes to the Lord
        sometime.

        Actually , ….I feel , that face to face ministry , …by someone
        in person ,where Yigotto lives……will help him receive the saving grace of the Lord Jesus.

        Cheers

        Vijay

        • Bring it on. A bit of healthy debate. I’ll even supply the tea and cakes.

        • Timothy Luke says:

          It appears that our friend has chosen the path to hell and will find himself destroyed in the midst of it. You can lead a sheep to wonder, but you can’t make him think….. I have better things to do at this point than pursuing the cursing of a blind man. Talking to God about Yigotto is better than talking to Yigotto about God. At least one of them knows the other exists…

          Let us be about encouraging those who are truly seeking the Lord, that they may know His blessing and life. Often we find ourselves diverting our attentions to the noisy ones who will not receive, as the quiet seekers pass on unaided.

      • But what if I was sent here by god to test your faith?

        • Timothy Luke says:

          Perhaps you were sent to test my faith! I had just asked Michael about whether or not I was correct in unplugging you when he told me, “as long as we have time to respond to his questions and he is not constantly shifting the grounds of debate to simply sowing discord.” So, here we are! Welcome back and please forgive my somewhat hasty decision.

          I turn around and see this note from you, how providential!

          • I have calmed down a bit now. Just got in the house but am off to bed. I will try to behave myself from tomorrow.

          • Timothy Luke says:

            Is there a chance God is using me to test your faith, Yigotto? 🙂

          • I am sure god has more pressing things to do. I am aware of my insignificance in the scheme of things.

          • You’re not insignificant to God. He is love personified, and He loves you and is concerned with every detail of our lives. Don’t forget that you are like Paul was in the Bible in regards to God. He was against the things of God, He persecuted Christians and cast His vote against them. He punished them often and compelled them to blaspheme, in fact He was’ exceedingly enraged against them’.

            Acts 26:10-12

            But when the grace of God came to Him and Jesus revealed Himself and His love to Paul, He completely changed and became one of the most passionate Christians, with a love and passion for God, standing for Him in everyway! There’s no other explanation for this except that He had an experience with God on the road to Damascus. This is what I pray for you :p That you would have an experience with the Living God and that He would reveal His love and grace and glory and power to you. In Jesus name I ask. Amen

          • I have no God. Nor do I have any need of one. I certainly don’t want the love of your god. He is too needy for me. In fact he is a bit like an abusive (and possibly psychotic) boyfriend:

            He needs constant praise and makes you feel guilty for just being human.
            He has severe jealousy issues.
            He lets painful experiences happen to you that he could easily prevent, just to test your devotion to Him.
            He claims credit for everything good in your life; claims nothing bad in your life comes from Him.
            He threatens you with eternal torture if you ever leave Him.
            He is constantly swearing that He loves you and you need Him.

            I have made some small changes for the better in people’s lives I think and the net result of my time on this planet will be a plus I hope. Though the final tally will depend to some extent on the path of my offspring. That is how I measure things: What have I done for the good in the here and now?

          • jesseedavis says:

            I’m asking, because it seems that you think if everyone did more good than this world would be better off. So I wonder, what is good? What is bad or evil? What difference does it make?

            Take those that choose to rob banks and rob others, who think it is a good thing. They grow up learning that his is the only way to live and survive. Is this right for them to do? Is it good what they’re doing? I have met many of these people and most of them will tell anyone that they are good people and did nothing wrong, despite what movies and all make them out to be. What I mean is that everyone has their own standard of right and good, so let me ask you again. Would it be a better place if more people did what is good and right?

            Another example of this: It is a natural tendency for all of us to be hateful and angry when others do wrong to us or whatever we hold dear to us. When someone takes something from us, one of our first thoughts or even responses is to do something back. When people grow up in some countries, they grow up in constant war. They grow up thinking that it is right and just to fight for their country, life, honor, freedom, whatever. Is this right or wrong? Now, what if their way of fighting is through what we call “terrorist attacks?” They certainly don’t call them terrorist attacks and they certainly don’t see it as wrong. So what if more people grew up doing this, because they think or feel or believe this is the right thing to do?

            According to your beliefs, there is no god. We came from a one-celled organism that eventually evolved into the species we now see today. Where did any of this good/evil, right/wrong come from? No other creature on earth lives according to a conscious sense of good/evil, right/wrong, so why are we so special that we can make choices along these lines and why are we so special that we have the ability to deem what others may be doing is right/ wrong, good/evil?

            According to your beliefs, we either do not have a conscience and there is no right/wrong, good/evil standards or we were somehow specially evolved apart from any and all other species on the entire earth and in fact as far as we know, in the entire universe. Why?

            To get a bit more personal, who determines whether what you do is right or good? Who determines how much of what you do is right or good? Who is the judge of your life? Who makes these final tallies/measurements? Just who on earth or somewhere else is your/our judge? It is the one true and living Almighty God. The same that made you, the same that will judge you. He is the very One whom you blaspheme and rebel. The very One that your conscience speaks of.

            I want to shift the conversation just a little, if you don’t mind anyway. What does this passage tell you? What does it say and mean?

            Romans 1:20-32
            20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
            21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
            22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
            23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
            24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
            25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
            26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
            27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
            28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
            29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
            30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
            31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
            32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

            Thanks for your patience and please be honest and careful with your reply, just as we are with ours.

          • Do we need to believe in a deity to have morals? No we don’t. Supporting each other for the common good favours our evolution. I am told that there are more christians in prison than not (as a percentage of the population). Much evil has been carried out in the name of god. Please don’t insult me by saying satan makes people do bad things. Remember free will?

            The infidel Bush was allegedly a christian yet he reigned over the killings of thousands of innocent people just to satisfy his own twisted ideals. And he had the audacity to tell us that god told him it was ok. There is blood on the hands of every American who voted Republican.

            Some things are clear cut, black and white, yin and yang. Others less so. I say live and let live but there are those who want to dictate to me how I live my life because they want their god to be top dog.

            My standard of good? I have very high standards. I don’t advocate violence against anyone. I support minorities. I don’t steal from my boss or blame others for my failings. I volunteer my services and work in the charitable sector. I don’t eat animals and I do my bit for the environment.

          • lookinforacity says:

            Yiggoto

            Here is your mirror, take a good long look at yourself. Memorize your image, this is not what you will become it is what you are now. May God have mercy on your soul.

            And even as you did not like to retain God in your knowledge, God gave you over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
            Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
            Without understanding, covenant-breakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
            Deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

            JIM
            .

          • And you think I’ve got problems?

          • Well Yiggoto ,

            Pl don’t think that we are here to point a finger at you.
            We are just telling you , …….that most of us were in
            a horrible state of mind ,…..and that today ,
            we are much , much happier ,….
            thanks to to saving grace of one man called Jesus ,
            and the words in the Bible ,…..inspired by the Holy Spirit.

            Just do me a favour , …
            spend a few days reading the Bible ,
            the Psalms , Samuel ,…the gospels ,
            etc.,…………….

            You will find that the circumstances of man have not changed
            much over the last 3000 years.

            By the Word of God , ….can changes us and everything else.

            Just try it once ,…….go to an Evangelical prayer meeting , ….
            and I am very sure that you and your circumstance will be transformed.

            If not ,…fell free to seek another religion ,….or atheism or another
            system like yoga or xyz ,…..

            We are praying for you too.

            Cheers

            Vijay

          • Most of you were in a ‘horrible state of mind’ and then you found god and got better. Doesn’t that say something about your needs rather than proof of a god? There is nothing that could ever happen to me that would make me turn to your god. You may as well be trying to convince me to believe in Father Christmas.

            The bible is not the word of god. It is the words of humans passing down the creation myth and stories about the flood. The only reason I would attend a prayer meeting is to try to open the minds of the people there. And if you lot are anything to go by, I might as well be platting fog.

          • warrior daughter says:

            This is a very true story and it happened to my middle daughter several years ago….
            My daughter was brought up in a God fearing family in other words as a widow raising 3 daughters by myself my fear of God was not what you think fear is but great respect for God..She was about 12 years old when I became born-again and this respect for God came about….Every morning before my daughters left for school we had prayer time and a small quick devontional time…
            At the age of 20 my daughter married and she and her husband were and are long haul truck drivers…After being married about two years, she was in a very bad accident….She was standing behind the semi allowing their dog to do his business….Her husband did not see her there and ran over her with the truck…Her body was thrown up into the wheelwell of the truck…People who have this happen to them experience death or life threathening and life long injuries…….Her husband knew he had ran over her and he instantly called upon the name of the Lord and quickly jumped out of the truck….This happened in a San Francisco buisness yard and others witnessed this and immediatley called 911…….Her husband was able to get her body out of the wheel well and was amazed that she was alive…The emergency forces were there within minutes and within minutes she was ast the hospital with a special staff that thought she would need them..If this would have happened in our local area, we would not have had all the specialist doctors on call…When she was evalutated she had massive bruising and that was all…She stayed in the hospital several days under observation…..Her eyes were dark blood shot red due to lack of oxgen…She was off work for about a month….She remembers this accident but she also remembers a cushion that protected her while she was in the wheel well….What was this protection….
            We believe that God provided an angel to protect her….You cannot convince me that there is not a God nor the Bible is a fallacy….
            Everytime that I look upon the faces of my grandchildren that were born after this accident I see the mercy of God…
            It is time that you stop blaming God for your problems…I could write a book on what I endured from the time of babyhood until I realized I could not carry the burden anymoreand asked God to forgive me and the precious Blood of Jesus was applied to my heart and life….

          • Perhaps god could have saved you a lot of pain and worry by not letting the truck start in the first place. People die in bizarre accidents all over the place and once in a blue moon, someone who should get mangled, doesn’t. Then it’s god or angels to the rescue!

            A 2 year old child had his head flattened under the wheel of a bus near here. Where was your god then? Did this child not dererve to live? A five year old was killed as he ran onto a shooting range at a friend’s party. His mother had recently lost her husband. Was she not worthy of an angel?

          • warrior daughter says:

            I feel grief for those who lost a child …Their dreams for the child has ended but the life of the child has began…They are safely in the hands and around the throne of God…We do not know why this happened to these children…
            As far as for the truck not starting that was not in God’s plans…This was a miracle and it will live in our hearts forevermore…Many people know this story and it gives them hope in God but it also changed others lives in that they accepted Jesus as their Savior………
            I will say one thing about you, you have great energy to deny God and to be angry with God and this energy could and will be used for the kingdom of God but you must make the first step toward Him….

          • warrior daughter says:

            As a post note….Do you sit around looking for things to blame God with????Do you read about a event in the paper or on the television and say AHA another thing I can blame God with??? When you look for something, you will surely find it…

          • Timothy Luke says:

            God is so faithful. He “looks upon the earth to see if there are any that do seek after Him that He may show Himself strong on their behalf.” Your testimony is precious and the lives of your children and grandchildren testify to the goodness of our Lord. Thank you for sharing!

          • Timothy Luke says:

            Without deity, there is no accountability. Without accountability, it is the survival of the fittest. The survival ‘of the fittest” translates into the survival of the “most ruthless” for lack of common guidelines to hold others accountable to. Consider yourself insulted by the facts of life. There is a devil and he is your father unless and until you make a conscientious choice to make Jesus your Lord. Have I dictated to you how to live your life? No, I am simply disagreeing with you. Once again, you tap into dictators and atheism has a clear record. It silences its critics with ridicule and mockery and escalates as it gains power to the point of mass murder and genocide.

          • That is simply not true. I am accountable to my family, friends, employer and the powers that be. I pay taxes so that those not as fit as me can be cared for. There are lots of ‘common guidelines’ about how people behave towards each other and the ‘consensus’ usually becomes statute as in the case of homophobic crime.

            Satan is my father? I need no lord or master to serve. You will see what you want to see. I have free thought. I hope that one day you too will be able to shed this burden but for the time being, you need to believe it and it is scary when people begin to realise that their truth is not the truth. We have to question everything we hold dear – or we just remain in denial.

          • Timothy Luke says:

            Without God, what makes your truth, the truth, that I should believe a word you have uttered?? Your thoughts are simply a random chemical process that passed through your cranium….

          • Timothy Luke says:

            You are correct. You have no need of God if your expectation is to live and die. “Eat, drink and be merry, for tomorrow, we die” is a motto of the perishing. I am sorry you have consigned yourself to that reward at present.

            You do need God. He doesn’t need your praise Yigotto. you have missed God’s point entirely! He made you. You were nothing before God and you are nothing without God. He was everything before you, everything without you, and will be everything when you have perished…. Yet, He loves you.

            It is not God who needs your praise Yiggoto. He got along quite well for eternity without it. He will carry on, somehow I am sure, without it still, or forever. It is YOU who need God. It is you who need to see Him for who He truly is – and not with the warped thinking that has you, a gnat, shaking your fist at Him. Your behavior is extremely silly. He needs your praise so much He withers without it? I don’t think so!

            Psalms 2:1-4 “Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain thing? The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the LORD, and against his anointed, saying, Let us break their bands asunder, and cast away their cords from us. He that sitteth in the heavens shall laugh: the Lord shall have them in derision.”

            You are a child in the market place Yigotto, saying, “And the Lord said, Whereunto then shall I liken the men of this generation? and to what are they like? They are like unto children sitting in the marketplace, and calling one to another, and saying, We have piped unto you, and ye have not danced; we have mourned to you, and ye have not wept.” You keep changing the tune and railing and ranting against the Lord because He is not meeting YOUR expectation.

            If God tolerates sin in this age, you accuse him and make him responsible for all the horrors that Satan has done as the god of this world. If the Lord judges sin, you say he is an angry and harsh God and you are too good to believe in such a God.

            Your thinking is all tangled up,

            What if God is true in everything He says about Himself, and what He expects of us in relation to Him? What if He just happens to be that wonderful and good and true that all praise is justified? What if He really is love, and your turkey baster counterfeit is wrong? I cannot believe you think such foolishness can be better than God!

            Take a long pause and consider that perhaps, just perhaps, all His claims are just and right and true. Take your worldview and be open minded enough to consider that God has a right to all he asks of us, and he has a right to do whatever he wants with this world. Open your closed mind to the truth that the devil was hired on by Adam and Eve to rule this age and the devil is the one to blame for all the bad things you have posted about.

            Take the time to open your closed mind to the fact that God has promised to make all things new and to wipe away all tears – in HIS time Yigotto, not yours. He made the heavens and the earth, not you, little man. Has is ever dawned on your closed mind that perhaps the Creator of all, knows MORE than you? You remind me of Job, except Job was righteous, and you have nothing but vengefulness against your Maker.

            Wrap your mind around God’s perspective for a while, not “God’s perspective from Yigotto’s perspective”. Ask God to answer your questions, and then shut up and listen. You may have to be silent for a long long time, but if you wait on Him, He will answer. Call on Him and He will hear you and heal your broken heart.

            Jesus Christ is our redeemer. He redeems us from destruction. You can curse the destruction. You can accuse God for the destruction and let the devil run free. That sounds pretty close minded to me. Open your mind Yigotto. Open your mind to consider that God is good and the solution to all man’s pain and sin is found i Him alone and through Jesus Christ who died on the cross for you, saying, “forgive them, for they know not what they do.”

            Come to Him Yigotto. Open your closed mind to consider that God loves you and wants to take away your pain and make you whole….. Until then, do not tell me I have a closed mind. My mind was open to sin, now it is open to righteousness. My life is a whole lot better now than it was then. I wish the same happiness for you.

          • I can’t deal with all this god and the devil stuff. I could never believe in a god ever again. I have experienced the childhood indoctrination (low level but there) and have moved on. What about the other gods worshiped and the faiths that don’t acknowledge Jesus. Are they wrong? How do you know that yours is the right path, with the correct god at the end of it? Your bible was rewritten to make it more palletable. Do you still believe it to be the undisputed word of god?

            It seems to me that you choose to be very selevtive about what you let in to your ‘reality’ and what you don’t. There is little or no evidence to support your claims and please do not quote the bible at me.

            Believe me when I say I have no need of a god, a redeemer, someone to die for my sins or any part of this masochistic religion.

          • Timothy Luke says:

            Yigotto, there is always a god, my friend. You choose to call atheism your belief system. Talk about intolerance, big power and control! China is an atheist nation. Atheism is ruled by logic. Logic has no place for the compassion you claim to espouse.

            Your superior worldview is directly responsible for 20 MILLION deaths in the Soviet Union alone. Millions upon millions more deaths in China under atheist regimes who kill for the good of the state. Thousands are beaten to death or simply beaten, while having properties confiscated “for the good of the state.”

            Atheism kills, Yigotto. You put on the cloak of indignation against microbial bacteria that kill, and you embrace a worldview that slaughters innocent men, women and children in their beds, or in the wayside. Are you really proud to be an atheist!? You have a right to be wrong, but you do not have the right to come on these boards and promote a worldview of hatred and murder while claiming it is freedom.

            If Atheism is freedom, why do atheist regimes operate in totalitarianism? It is when people are free to have an individual conscience, instead of a ‘collective’ one, that atheist regimes perish!

            You may look throughout history and take a death toll of all the ages, and hands down, the atheist regimes of the 20th century FAR OUTSTRIP all others combined in sheer volumes of murder and repression. Are you proud of that Yigotto? Christianity preaches love and forgiveness and the freedom to be wrong even. You say you are tolerant?? Atheism preaches evil in the name of good, and makes no allowance for an opposing view.

            God is not responsible for the abuses done in the name of Christianity. He did not orchestrate them.

            Atheism IS responsible for the atrocities committed in its name, because it is a man made worldview based on logic free of morality. The murders of Nazism were all logically consistent with the needs of the state. The murders of Stalin and his successors in the Soviet bloc were consistent with the logic of atheism to purge God from the society.

            As a baby tiger, atheism pleads for tolerance. We look upon it as cute and acceptable and feed the sweet little baby. When it grows up, it becomes a beast that devours its handlers. We have coddled the kitten, it is now getting unruly, but it will soon devour. Your enlightenment is very dark indeed! Repent.

          • Atheism is, simply, the lack of belief in a god. There are no tenets, no dogma, no rituals, no common socio-political beliefs, no agendas, no ethical code, no “holier than…” or “better than” — there’s nothing within atheism that could support your claims. Those tyrants and murderers didn’t kill people “in the name of atheism” and atheism wasn’t the cause of their actions. It may have been that they has moustashes!

            However lets consider all the people killed by direct intervention from Yehoba, including all the first-born that he seemed to particularly favour.
            Exodus 13:2 Sanctify unto me all the firstborn, whatsoever openeth the womb among the children of Israel, both of man and of beast: it is mine.
            Exodus 22:29 Thou shalt not delay to offer the first of thy ripe fruits, and of thy liquors: the firstborn of thy sons shalt thou give unto me.

            Add to that, the many wars based on religion, the inquisition and the witchhunts. You say that was men and not god but henious crimes have been committed in the name of god and by your god.

          • Timothy Luke says:

            I have shown you the way God took the course of nature and superceded it to rescue my wife and I in Our Story . These are MIRACLES today Yigotto. Not some made up fairy tale. I have seen and been so blessed. Sara has shared how God has done miracles for her. Your mind is smaller than you admit. You cannot open it to receive the facts that I am living out. “There are none so blind as those who refuse to see.”

            It is time for you to leave these boards Yigotto. You have better things to do than waste your time trying to convince people with experiences with the Living God, who speak to Him and hear Him and receive life and blessing from Him that He does not exist. We are not fools to forsake the One who loves us… Come back when you have your ears on. The Lord loves you, but you will perish in your sin without Him – your father the devil will see to that. Change fathers before it is too late!

          • warrior daughter says:

            A man will run from God for many reasons…..He had a dream in his heart and it was not fulfilled due to the devil putting obstacles in his life…He thinks that there would be too many rules to abide in if he ran into the arms of God…He thinks it would be much easier to continue on in sin than to run to God…He thinks he is strong in his own self and does not need to run to God…He has been angry with God for years and this gives him a unneccessary burden that will be lifted when he runs to God…All of his life he has sought love and acceptance from people and they have rejected him but he does not understand that there is perfect love and acceptance from God if and when he will run to him…..He has had a loved one die of a disease and it has hardened his heart since he cannot understand the why of this and he blames God….He has been hurt by someone who calls themself a Christian and says I do not want to be like that person but God does not cause harm to anyone and his love is forevermore…These are just some of the reasons but I know in my own life that I kept running and hiding from God and the reason was that I was very angry with Him due to some circumstances that occurred when I was a small child and these circumstances laid heavy in my heart and grew and grew as I grew older and it became a festering infected wound until I could not take it anymore and quickly ran toward the Father and the comfort of His arms…..Repentance was involved on my behalf and I can say without a shadow of a doubt it was worth it ……

          • Timothy Luke says:

            Thank you for sharing your post, The Running Man, WarriorDaughter. Very insightful.

          • jesseedavis says:

            I had posted something yesterday before the unpluggedness and then realized the next time I came on that both the post and my reply were gone. Now, I’m beginning to think there was more to it than I know of. Is it possible to see what I missed or is it gone for good? Is it even worth seeing?

          • Timothy Luke says:

            Hi Jesse, sorry for the confusion. I was pretty up front with my reasons for pulling the posts. I pulled your reply, because a reply to a non post is out of place. You will notice if you scroll down, that I put your post back up when I put Yigottos back. We were coming to a pretty thin line of ‘how much is too much?” and I pulled the plug when there was more patience for me to display.

          • jesseedavis says:

            Yea, I saw it, thanks! I thought there was more actually, so I guess I was wrong. I thought something happened between my post and the unplugging, but since there wasn’t, I’m no longer confused. Thanks for helping me out and continue what you’re doing! I am truly blessed to be able to read the different thoughts and all that you have posted here on this website as long as follow how your life goes and the progression of your walk with our Father and our Lord Jesus.

    • What is Baptism of the Holy Spirit ?
      Is it different from the Gift of Tongues ?
      How does one get the Baptism of the Holy Spirit ?
      How does one get other Gifts of the Holy Spirit like
      the Gift of Healing or the Gift of Prophecy ?
      Are you or any one else on this site blessed with any of the Gifts
      like Healing or Prophecy or Wisdom ?

      Cheers

      Vijay
      [email protected]

      • Timothy Luke says:

        Baptism of the Holy Spirit is when we are given not simply the down payment of the spirit for our salvation, but an empowering to do the works Jesus called us to do, such as: casting out devils, healing the sick, performing miracles, speaking in tongues.

        It is the same difference as saying “all Americans are Californians.” This is untrue, because California is just part of the larger picture. The same with tongues. It is a small part of a larger picture.

        One receives the baptism of the Holy Spirit by faith. We seek a Christian who we are confident are operating in the gifts of the Holy Spirit and ask them to lay hands on us and pray for God to impart that gift. We then thank God for receiving because Jesus says clearly that if we ask for the Spirit, we shall receive. “will a father give his son a rock if he asks for an egg? If your earthly fathers know how to give good things, how much more shall your heavenly Father?”

        The same way. We ask one who is filled with the Spirit. God gives gifts to different parts of the body for different purposes. You may operate in only one or two gifts, or you may be called to operate in all of them. Remember the parable of the talents? Some were given five and some two or one.

        I believe I have the gift of wisdom. I have asked for wisdom, coupled with love to direct it, since childhood and reading of Solomon. I have had the gift of healing manifest a few times, and other times not. I have not operated in the prophetic at all to my knowledge.

        In all things, God knows where He wants to place you in the body, and what gifts He has for you. Ask Him to show you His desire for you and what gifts He would have you seek after. Paul does mention seeking after certain gifts, but I caution that some are so desirous they will take the first counterfeit that comes along, or will go into pride with their giftings and lose their salvation and bring shame to others in the process.

        I would like to invite others to share the giftings they see in their lives. I don’t recall having spoken of giftings given me before, but it may help us to get to understand each other better!

        I hope this helps Vijay!

    • Can any give me the names / contacts of any real prophets
      or those who have the gift of Prophecy ? (those in India preferred)
      (I’m talking about real stuff , …say a guy who would measure upto 60% vis-a-vis Samuel of the Old Testament)

      Does God still do stuff like parting the Red Sea or bringing down
      the Walls of Jericho ? If so , how ? ;or does that require a Prophet of Old ?

      Anyone personally seen such mega events ?

      Cheers

      Vijay

  2. Eternity lasts for a vey long time. We know that this reality is finite. Our Sun will die and it will take the earth with it. Life is based on chemistry (and biology) and is governed by the laws of physics. The first cell happened and all life came from that. Please don’t tell me that god made everything in a week or I really will think that you need a new director for your production.

    • Timothy Luke says:

      You may live up to the expectations of your ancestors Yiggoto, and I will live up to the expectations of mine. Is that fair enough? I began in the heart of God, you began in a chemical soup kitchen…. You speak very proudly for one from such a humble heritage.

    • jesseedavis says:

      It really saddens me that the same thing you along with many others criticize us for doing is the very same thing you come here to do. Listen Yiggoto, if I came to your house and came inside and started trying to “convert” you and your family and at the same time disrespecting everything about homosexuality and atheism and anything else I can find, you wouldn’t be happy. Some people would be more liable to shoot with the excuse of home invasion and self-defense in that situation. Needless to say, it is very offensive!

      Please just do us and yourself a favor, and either find a new attitude to bring to the table, one with a little more respect, or just get up and go somewhere else.

      There is no way that you can change a mind or a heart about what we have seen and heard. There is also no way that you can explain away everything we know to be true from the Bible. You can try but it’s going to do you no good.

      • I know I can’t change your minds or hearts. All I can do is lobby for church and state to be independent, for faith schools to be banned and for children to be protected from brainwashing by their parents. This is a forum where I believe people can share ideas and opinions. You know you will never change your mind and I know my truth is real, just as yours is to you. Difference is, your truth just doesn’t have any evidence to support it. That is why you need faith. As for the shooting, I hear you Americans have a serious problem with gun crime and invading countries that you don’t like (that also have oil reserves).

        • jesseedavis says:

          Hmmm, I’m confused, in the first part of your message you seem to be speaking like someone in America and in the last part of your message you stereotype Americans in a way that excludes you. It doesn’t matter, really, because either way you reject God and would rather spend eternity without Him.

          There is more evidence than you apparently know about supporting Christ and His life, death and resurrection as well as the Bible and its authority and integrity. If you would like, I will gladly share some things I’ve found with you. That is unless you’re too smart to believe in such fairy tales than that of what even Einstein spoke of. It’s your choice, I’m here for you.

          If you think that billions of people from thousands of years ago until present day have come to believe in the reality of Christ as God and Lord is only founded on faith with absolutely no other evidence, than I’m sorry for you. Please, think about what it is you’re typing before you submit your post. Your statements and implications are that of a child that refuses to learn anything more than what he’s read in a children’s book. I mean no offense in this, and forgive me if this does indeed forgive you.

  3. Hi Yigotto,

    John Lennox is a Reader in mathematics at Oxford University and wrote an excellent book called “God’s Undertaker – Has Science buried God?” It is one of the most informed intellectual defenses of theism I have ever read.

    Why do you have confidence in any of your own reasonings? Aren’t your opinions about what is “arrogant” simply personal preferences based on chemistry?

    Whereas you see the vastness of the Universe as a reason to doubt the importance of what is happening on earth, others see it as a testament to the greatness of an Infinite Mind who can put on a very large scale production to make a point to the beings He has created for eternity.

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