once save always saved

Luk 3:9 , are not the trees here , the brethren?

What do YOU think?



  1. lookinforacity says:

    Hi eaglerider

    The answer to your question is a no, the trees spoken of are not the brethren.
    Notice in Luke 3:7 John the Baptist, was speaking directly to the Pharisees and Sadducees

    Mat 3:7
    But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?

    John then speaks the rest.
    Luk 3:9 And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: every tree therefore which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

    You see the same thing recounted in Matthew 3:10
    Mat 3:10
    And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

    The axe was being laid to the root, they the Jewish Nation were going to lose the Kingdom offered to them, it was being taken from them and would be given to the Gentiles.

    Jesus then spoke this parable to them.

    Luk 13:6-9
    6) He spake also this parable; A certain man had a fig tree planted in his vineyard; and he came and sought fruit thereon, and found none.
    7) Then said he unto the dresser of his vineyard, Behold, these three years I come seeking fruit on this fig tree, and find none: cut it down; why cumbereth it the ground?
    8) And he answering said unto him, Lord, let it alone this year also, till I shall dig about it, and dung it:
    9) And if it bear fruit, well: and if not, then after that thou shalt cut it down.

    This parable Jesus spoke was about the Jewish Nation Israel, His ministry was to them for 3 yrs. and only a remnant accepted him as Messiah.

    These things which were spoken to them, were because they were the Generation prophesied of.
    Luke 11:29-32, 50,51
    29.) And when the people were gathered thick together, he began to say, (THIS IS AN EVIL GENERATION: THEY SEEK AFTER A SIGN; AND THERE SHALL NO SIGN BE GIVEN IT), but the sign of Jonas the prophet.
    30) For as Jonas was a sign unto the Ninevites, (SO SHALL ALSO THE SON OF MAN BE TO THIS GENERATION).
    31) The queen of the south shall rise up in the judgment with the men of (THIS GENERATION, AND CONDEMN THEM): for she came from the utmost parts of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon; and, (BEHOLD, A GREATER THAN SOLOMON IS HERE).
    32) The men of Nineve shall rise up in the judgment with (THIS GENERATION, AND SHALL CONDEMN IT):
    for they repented at the preaching of Jonas; and, (BEHOLD, A GREATER THAN JONAS IS HERE).

    50) (THAT THE BLOOD OF ALL THE PROPHETS), which was shed from the foundation of the world, (MAY BE REQUIRED OF THIS GENERATION),
    51) From the blood of Abel unto the blood of Zacharias which perished between the altar and the temple: verily I say unto you, (IT SHALL BE REQUIRED OF THIS GENERATION).

    Be Blessed

  2. Good illustration but John is speaking to the OT audience – Preparing the way for the One who will bring Salvation.

    There are so many references that speak against “Always Saved” doctrine though…

    Philippians 2 – Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling

    Revelation 3:5 – is one of the best examples that I can think of – “Being blotted out of the lambs book of Life”

    Matt 24:48-51 (Jesus is talking about “His Evil Servant”)


    • lookinforacity says:

      Hi Huck Finn

      Your 3 examples

      Php 2:12-15
      12) Therefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, in my presence, so now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
      13) For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.
      14) Do all things without murmurings and disputings:
      15) That you may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom you shine as lights in the world;

      Notice, the word salvation in verse 12 is in regard to verse 15 where they are being admonished by Paul, to be good examples of what Christians are, in the sight of ungodly men. The salvation spoken of, was not in relation to the salvation of their immortal souls.


      Rev. 3:1-6
      The church at Sardis was pronounced as being “dead” 3:1. It appeared to be alive, looked spiritually vibrant on the outside but was spiritually lifeless. The church was Christian in name only.
      Remember Christ’s rebuke of the Pharisees who “look beautiful on the outside but on the inside are full of dead men’s bones and everything unclean” Matthew 23:27, the Lord is not deceived, the Church, needed to stir up the Spirit of God in order to come to life. In contrast to some of the other churches, things seemed to be peaceful and religiously correct. Its religiously proper outward appearance may have only meant, it had fully compromised the truth, with the pagan society around it.
      Sardis has been called, “The perfect model of inoffensive Christianity” “A picture of nominal Christianity, outwardly prosperous, busy with the externals of religious activity, but devoid of spiritual life and power”
      Paul had described such Christians by saying they seemed quite religious but denied God’s power in their lives 2 Timothy 3:5. This church community of living dead needed the power of God to bring them back to life. Christ therefore gave Sardis a jolting command to “Wake up!” 3:2. The rousing call was meant to encourage the church to take action. The members were to strengthen what little remained, to obey, to repent 3:2-3. Jesus told the church at Sardis to wake up or he would come like a thief does. “You will not know at what time I will come to you,” he said 2:3.

      Jesus was speaking to the Church as a whole, not individual believers. There were believers within the Sardis Church that were true believers, but it appears as though the majority were not. The Church at Sardis does not exist today, they must not have listened
      Rev 3:1
      And unto the angel of the church in Sardis write;

      The church of Sardis was described as dead.
      Sardis today is about 50 miles east of Izmir, and is solely an archaeological site. A small village nearby is named Sart.
      Tourist sites of interest are
      1. Sardis Synagogue
      2. Temple of Artemis
      3. Byzantine Church


      Mat 24:48
      But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming;
      Mat 24:51
      And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

      The servant which is spoken of, is an evil servant, his portion is with the hypocrities. The children of God, Born again Christians aren’t ever called evil servants, but there are some posing as Christians, who could be called evil servants, they are the tares, the ones that have been planted in the field of the good master, by an enemy. They will be rooted up and burned. They are unsaved.
      Therefore we should not view these people, as believers having lost their salvation.

      Mat 13:24-30
      24) Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field:
      25) But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way.
      26) But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also.
      27) So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares?
      28) He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up?
      29) But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them.
      30) Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.

      These 3 scriptures, Phil. 2 – Rev.3:5 – Matt 24:48-51 do not speak to the issue of those loosing their salvation.

      Be Blessed

      • Huck Finn says:

        I was considering going into Doctrine but decided that it would likely be a waste of time and lose the original intention of the persons initial post.

        If you do want to discuss the issue Replacement Theology I’ll share my E-Mail. I will supply a very definitive and scriptural foundation for my Beliefs after we can get a better grasp of each others hermeneutics.

        God Bless You

        My orirignal line of reasoning re church of Sardis was…
        How can a person church/institution/group of people be blotted out of a book with out first being written into the book?

        • lookinforacity says:

          Hi Huck Finn

          As far as the Replacement theory is concerned, these are my thoughts on the matter. You can then place them into whatever hermeneutic you like after that. They are just “MY” thoughts not influenced by anyone else or other doctrines.

          God chose Abraham as the father of the Nation of Israel. = (Chosen People)
          They were chosen by God through Abraham to be the blessing to the world. Not a blessing as themselves, but that the Messiah, Immanuel would be born of this Nation, and not any other.
          The Jewish Nation of Israel rejected “Their Messiah.”
          Therefore all of the blessings that hitherto fore were only reserved for the Nation of Israel, now would be offered to the Gentile peoples of the world, those that would acknowledge the Jewish Messiah as their Savior, would become heir to these blessings.
          This transference of the blessings of God from the Nation of Israel, to accepting Gentile believers, is not to be understood as an irreversible situation. It has been prophesied, the Nation of Israel will through the mercies of God be called to repentance, allowing them to once again avail themselves of the blessings of God.
          This returning of the Nation of Israel will only be accomplished, by their acceptance of their “Messiah.”

          This is only a summery of my beliefs on the matter, hope they are clear enough, if not, or there is something you may think I have missed, ask for specifics I will then supply them.

          Be Blessed

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