If I Could Say 10 Things to the American Church

My nephew, Jon, who works in Mozambique where he serves wrote this and it impressed me. It is thought provoking…


If I could say 10 things to the American Church
Wednesday, February 4, 2009 at 7:01am

It’s pretty self-explanatory – this isn’t a list of “Why I Hate the American Church.” Whenever I go home I’m always amazed at just how much God is using them. Rather, this is a list of things that I think would help the church in it’s ability to grow closer to God and change people’s lives. Feel free to comment or leave your own list behind!

10. The Good News isn’t just about heaven or hell, especially now in our culture – over 80% of people believe they are going to heaven. The New Testament is full of good news and shortened versions of the gospel message, many of which are far more applicable to our worried, stressed, and lonely world.

9. Marriage is under attack, but the gay community isn’t destroying marriages. They don’t have anything to do with the high divorce rate within the church. That’s 100% our fault!

8. Your God is too small, period. Please stop taking scriptures and conforming them to the God you have seen at work in your life instead of trying to reach for the God who is laid out in the Bible.

7. The body of Christ is bigger and more diverse than you could ever imagine. Heaven is going to have people who speak in tongues and people who think speaking in tongues is satanic, people who evangelize and people who have never told anyone about Jesus, people who were sprinkled at baptism and people who were dunked.

6. Even if you think it’s a secret sin, it’s destroying your walk with God. Anything you want to keep secret can be used against you and will hinder your freedom.

5. If you want to see prayers answered, don’t start with the huge things like cancer. You don’t throw a person in rush hour traffic to teach them to drive, or on a black diamond course to learn to ski – why would learning to pray be any different? When you begin to see the small things answered, then your faith will increase for the larger things.

4. If Jesus is your Lord, that means you have to do what He says even if it doesn’t make sense. And He will ask you to do things that don’t make sense to you.

3. If you are looking for direction from God, start with the small things instead of the big things. He doesn’t care where you go to college nearly as much as He does about those moment by moment decisions that create your character. It’s the small constant decisions that will define who you are in His eyes, not the big ones.

2. Start reaching the people Jesus would reach out to instead of the people you want your church. The poor, your co-worker no one likes, the person on the bus who smells bad, the people your friends make fun of… Those are the people Jesus wants.

1. You can’t live the Christian life without supernatural help. That means everything – loving your neighbor, not sinning, being joyful, patient, caring – not just healing the sick, raising the dead etc… Stop trying – it was meant to be impossible so we would turn to God for help!

What do YOU think?



  1. Hey that was pretty good Chief. Kudos!

    I like your Top 10 List. Muey bueno. I like your wisdom…or as I say “the law of God applied accurately”.

    Hmm? Do 80% of all people believe they’re goin to Heaven? Ha! Somebody give me a religious break and pass the biscuits. Good Lord……you gotta be jokin.

    I’m not backing this up but I heard a testimony from one who claims they went to heaven and the number was more like 2.5%. Yikes..what if that we even remotely true? Whoa! Hell must be one crowded frat party hey? No thanks. Satans big time bash is one is one party I’ll pass on. I prefer some heavenly biscuits and gravy at the big time bash by God…thank you very much and pass that Jesus celebration wine too. Oh Yea!

    Ok..comments on what % is makin it? Interesting thought.

  2. For your consideration, brothers and sisters:

    “You are not allowed to eat within your gates the tithe of your grain or new wine or oil, or the firstborn of your herd or flock, or any of your votive offerings which you vow, or your freewill offerings, or the contribution of your hand. But you shall eat them before the Lord your God in the place which the Lord your God will choose, you and your son and daughter, and your male and female servants, and the Levite who is within your gates; and you shall rejoice before the Lord your God in all your undertakings.” (Deuteronomy 12:17-18)

    I find it very interesting that the tithe was not just to be given but it was to be eaten in the presence of the Lord. Jumping ahead, Moses elaborates on this command.

    “You shall surely tithe all the produce from what you sow, which comes out of the field every year. “You shall eat in the presence of the Lord your God, at the place where He chooses to establish His name, the tithe of your grain, your new wine, your oil, and the firstborn of your herd and your flock, so that you may learn to fear the Lord your God always. If the distance is so great for you that you are not able to bring the tithe, since the place where the Lord your God chooses to set His name is too far away from you when the Lord your God blesses you, then you shall exchange it for money, and bind the money in your hand and go to the place which the Lord your God chooses. You may spend the money for whatever your heart desires: for oxen, or sheep, or wine, or strong drink, or whatever your heart desires; and there you shall eat in the presence of the Lord your God and rejoice, you and your household.” (Deuteronomy 14:22-26)

    This command seems so out of character with how tithing and giving are typically taught today. When offerings are taken today, they are usually for the benefit and support of someone else’s ministry, mission, or vision. The gifts given are used by others to accomplish God’s will and to further His kingdom. However, in Israel, the tithe was to be enjoyed by the giver; enjoyed and eaten in the presence of the Lord. We often hear messages today about the need for sacrifice in given. When a church undertakes a building campaign, they use the slogan, “Not equal giving but equal sacrifice,” yet such sacrifice, i.e. giving “in faith” what we do not have, seems to be to be inconsistent with the teachings of tithing and giving in the Old Testament. It seems to me that perhaps God is wanting to change some of our thinking about tithing and giving. What if, in our giving, we focused on enjoying our tithes and offerings in the presence of God? How might our giving be different? What if we used our tithes and giving in the following ways?

    * Call a feast and ask everyone to use their tithes to buy what every they would like and bring it to Church so that everyone could eat together in the presence of the Lord.
    * Use our tithes and offerings to pay for Christian training and education for us or our children. Maybe a Christian school, Bible school, or some ministry school.
    * Use our tithes and offerings to pay for a short term missions trip for one of our children or even for ourselves.
    * Use our tithes and offerings to help someone in financial need. Perhaps even a parent or grand-parent.
    * Spend our tithes and offerings on a family vacation to reconnect with our family and, together, with God.

    These are just a few suggestions, but you get the idea. Tithes and offerings are not meant to be a burden but a blessing. Perhaps we need to start thinking about them in this light.

    • There are some who do not understand that Christ gave gifts to the Church, those gifts are
      Apostles, Prophets, Evangelist, Pastors and Teachers. Eph 4:11

      The Bible makes it very plain how Christians are to support those who are ministering God’s word to them. (Gal 6:6 1 Tim5:17-18, Rom 15:27, I Cor 9:9-14)

      These false teachings come about mainly because people that have never been called of God to
      be a teacher are trying to teach the Bible.

      I’ve also seen some false teachings come about because some do not believe in organized religion, but Paul definitely believed in it.

      If a Christian does not support his Pastor financially I suppose people expect God to rain down manna from heaven to support their Pastor.

      The consequences of taking away the Pastors support is men called of God leaving the ministry!
      And where does that leave Christians who need the gifts Christ has given to the Church?

      The Bible makes it very plain that Pastors and all the gifts of Christ are for the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ (Eph 4:12)

      Be wary of anyone that tells you that you are not to support the ministry, they are definitely not of God.

      It has always been the devils ploy to scatter God’s sheep to the winds with no Pastor to help them grow in the knowledge of Christ.

      These teaching imply that Christians don’t need a Pastor, therefore there’s no need to support one with tithes.

      Tithes belong to God, not to be used as we see fit. Too many people are trying to teach a
      ME-Gospel, looking only at what the blessings of God do for ME, not realizing the tithes don’t belong to them, therefore they are to use the tithe as God designed for the work of the ministry, not for missions trips for our Children, what foolishness!

      Please in love, if God has not called you into the ministry to teach His people, you are doing a great disservice and leading the saints to disobey the plain teachings of God’s word.

      James 3:1 My brethren, be not many masters, knowing that we shall receive the greater condemnation.

      • I didn’t say we should not support ministry. God forbid! I’m just saying we should do it according to the scriptures, precept upon precept. ALL of them. Let’s not leave a one out, because Revelations explicitly warns us what will happen if we TAKE AWAY from God’s word, (As well as add to it) And I pointed out several scriptures that are conveniently ignored today.

        Brother, we need the WHOLE counsel of God. NOT just a selected, utilitarian portion of it.

        Should we not do it the Bible way? Why would it be a problem to follow the WHOLE law considering tithing, and not just a fraction of it? I’m saying, if we are going to place our self under the law, the scripture through Paul, whom you mentioned, makes it abundantly clear that we are then obligated to keep the ENTIRE law, and that is the “plain teaching of God’s Word.”

        Would it clarify if I went over the entire law concerning tithing point by meticulous point?



        • Michael Shelton says:

          Did Melchizzedek give tithes or recieve tithes? What priesthood are believers in Jesus of Nazareth apart of. The levitical priesthood or the priesthood after the order of Melchizzedek? Is there any commandments in the new covenant that commands us to tithe? Did Abraham tithe from everything he owned? Did God command Jacob to tithe or did Jacob put the burden upon himself?

          • JustAGuy says:

            Melchisedek received tithes. Believers are beneficiaries of the priesthood of Melchisedek. He is our High Priest. Tithing is not commanded in the NT, but Paul wrote that he did have the authority to bind the church to that standard if he so chose. Thus, it becomes in 1 Corinthians 9 an option at the church leader’s discretion. Abraham tithed on the spoils, Jacob tithed all – did he put the burden on himself, or did he conditionally offer back to God something that was already required of him?

            Blessings and Peace,

    • There are THREE tithes in the OT. One is to support the priesthood, one is to enable the people to travel and keep the annual holy days and have plentiful resource to rejoice with, and the third is for the distribution to the widows and fatherless.

      Blessings and Peace,

      • You have well spoken in saying that there were three tithes in the old testament.

        A detailed and diligent study about the subject will begin to peel away layers of deception that have been inculcated in us from the traditions of men.

        As I personally began to look into it, I was shocked to find that what I had been taught in denominational church was NOT congruent with what the Scriptures reveal.

        Me thinks I have been lied to…..

  3. I’m writing to try to find the facts concerning a matter I heard. Perhaps if more people have heard this, there may be a grain of truth in it. And I need to find out if this is truth or lies.

    So I’m asking now: Has anyone here heard about this new thing concerning stickers (dots) being placed on your mailbox? (supposedly at night while you sleep) My understanding is that the dots are about the size of a nickel or a quarter. They are red, or blue or pink. Supposedly the red dot means you and your family have been targeted for death, the blue dots means concentration camp, and the pink dot means you are not considered a threat to the NWO.

    My Lord help us!!!! Is this true????? Or is this some kind of new urban legend?

    I sincerely hope someone can point me to an authoritative source that can settle the question, as ever since I heard this, it has caused me much distress.


    • warrior daughter says:

      I did a little bit of searching since I have not heard this before…It sounds like something that is coming out of conspiracy sites….What I read which, I know is wrong that there are words/signs also on back of road signs to show foreign troops where to go….These words/signs are used by homeless people and they tell others what to expect when in certain area or where to go for help ect…
      There is nothing on Snopes.com about this…

      I copied and pasted this from a conspiracy site…

      I have worked for the U.S. Postal service, as a mail carrier, for the last 13 years. I have noticed these dots too. I assure you that I have never placed any dots on any mailboxes or posts, and I have never heard this subject discussed by any carrier or management. I am pretty sure that the dots are placed there by your newspaper delivery person to indicate which papers you subscribe to.

      To test this, why don’t some of you who get newspaper delivery discontinue one or all of your newspapers and see if the dots get taken off your mailbox or post.

      I think I will bring this issue up at work. According to postal policy, no one is supposed to be using the MAILBOX except for the U.S. Postal Service. The MAILBOX is supposed to be under postal jurisdiction and no one is supposed to place ads inside or on the outside of the MAILBOX, including the flag on the mailbox. Many people, and businesses, erroneously believe they can attach ads to the mailbox FLAG or on the outside of the mailbox. The POST however is open territory. Many mailbox POSTS manufacturers now include a space under the mailbox for the placement of newspapers or advertisement flyers.

      Also on a another site this had to do with garbage pickup and it was the day of the week for the workers to know which day to pick up the garbage…

      • Yes. I too Googled it before posting. I also checked out snopes. Truth is scarce on this matter. (Obscured, perhaps?)

        But if it were true, typically NWO would bring it in in an “innocuous” manner. (Start out with using it for Postal service and garbage man, etc. “Harmless” folks. Nothing to worry about. Heh, heh.

        The same way putting ID tracking chips in our pets “so we can find them if Rover gets lost” is harmless.

        I know EXACTLY how the devil thinks and operates! He thinks we are ALL gullible fools. And at other times he is utterly brazen.

        Well, I’ve got news for him. I’m quite familiar with the saying about putting a frog in a pot of cold water and slowly turning up the heat until he boils to death.

        That is EXACTLY what the enemy has been doing to our country for decades! The sneak..no the SNAKE has been slowly turning up the heat! And now we are at a near boiling point with the most Godless President this nation has ever had!

        Now I’m not concluding that this is the doings of the NWO. The jury is still open on that. But I am extremely wary. I will be “looking over my shoulder, ” so to speak. And NOTHING surprises me!

        • warrior daughter says:

          Florida has already put ID chips into Alzeheimer patients…They have to have permission to to this…

          In the state where I live, when you renew your driver’s license or ID card, a chip is put in it…You have to wait several days to get the new license or card…The state says this is to keep track of what roads are used the most….A person can leave it at home so this would not be accurate about the roads….Most likely it is a device to know where someone is at all times…

          • See what I’m saying? They are sneaking it in one small step at a time. I would bet dollars to doughnuts.

            (Well, I don’t bet, but that is just a saying)

            Anyway, we need the eyes of eagles to see through the facade!

            Remember when the Beatles first came on the music scene? It all seemed so fun and harmless. Years later, we have rock groups worshiping the devil, singing about him, literally SCREAMING in our ears like wild banshees and totally distorting everything that was lovely and praiseworthy about music. Now it’s a sick, drug, soaked, culture, with a rotten foundation.

            But it’s the same principle. the enemy introduces something seemingly harmless, innocuous, MASKING his real intent. (It’s a form of lieing, brothers and sisters, and he is the father of that) He slowly turns up the heat, and then it’s too late, for millions are ensnared in his evil web, with him just sitting back with his fat, unholy butt hanging over his evil little throne, just mocking them with his hideous laughter.

            BUT, my God will have the last laugh!!!

            I can not begin to tell you how much I absolutely HATE and detest the devil. I would love to have the blessing of being there when the Lord finally throws him in the bottomless pit. It would feel wonderful to be the one to give him the final KICK over the edge.

            (But I’m dreaming)

  4. Faithometers?

    All things arise out of prayer- even belief. Many do not start off with belief in Christ. What do they do about this? REad the word and pray, and pray and read.

    Jesse you can surely pray for perspective. But perspective is a frame of mind and the best medicine for the mind is “read the Word.”

    How much faith does man have- not much (Mathew 17: 19-21). There are not too many Mountains cast in the sea, not too many raising(s) of the dead, nor too many walking(s) on water.

    Jesse writes that we need to pray for activation of faith rather than pray for an increase of faith- for you the medicine is clear- pray for activation! For those who have yet to assay their measure of faith or cannot place a faithometer pray for its increase!


    • jesseedavis says:

      I understand what you mean Peer, but is salvation out of prayer or out of faith?

      I will say that there is a vast shallowness of faith, but this is not how much faith we have, but how solid it is. Matthew 17:19-21 talks about them not believing, praying, or fasting. It wasn’t that they didn’t have faith or didn’t have much faith. One thing you can keep in mind is that even in this issue Jesus told them that with what faith they have they can do more than they think they can. In other words, they could have done that themselves without anything more; all they would’ve had to do was use what faith they had to accomplish what had to be done.

      • The Spirit, not the Letter

        These matters interest me

        What is truth? the text of Scripture or the intent? Are we approved by our understanding or submission?

        Your Question: does salvation arise out of faith or prayer

        God himself is responsible for Salvation in its entirety- so man cannot boast of anything. God wills it; the Son of God’s life, death and resurrection effect it.

        Our work is in fact no work at all- it is an entering into a Rest prepared by God (He 3, 4) . We enter this rest through faith. Faith in turn is engendered by the Word of God.

        We are convicted by the Holy Spirit and by choice we enter into repentance. t (Acts : 37) Our belief in Christ as Lord is rooted in faith (otherwise it is an understanding not a cleaving belief). Our Confession of Jesus Christ is through the working of the Holy Spirit in our spirit (Ro.10).

        From this we enter our walk which is less a walk than a movement of the Spirit in our hearts as we Abide in Christ and his Word.

        Our only work, is no work but to respond to that which has been planted and the imperatives of a quickened spirit. So, in all things it is Christ, nothing that we may boast in.

        Faith grows as we grow in the Word

        If faith is produced by the Word (through hearing) then be assured that it grows with the Word as we grow in the Word. That is if the Word of God is establishing itself in our Spirit not our mind.

        Lets not get hung up on metaphors or imagery

        Talking about faith as a mustard seed, considering it as a media that grows and deepens, all these things are metaphors.

        Fact is that as the Word God increases in the heart, in the spirit, then through Hearing, Faith increases.

        However, when the Word is directed through the mind and stops there- then there is no increase in faith, nor does the Kingdom of God (within) grow. So, praying for an increase in faith is simply calling on the Spirit to establish the heart over the mind; directing and growing an attitude appropriate to faith in our spirit so that the building of the Kingdom within is re-established in vigor.


        This is a great site for believers of different culture who cleave to Jesus to network- so I restrict my contributions to simple exchanges.

        Each believer should wrestle with Scripture (as Jacob wrestled with the Angel) to understand these matters properly.

        Likewise they can pray as they please according to their beliefs. If they see benefit then pursue this otherwise a change direction or heart / mind is required.

        May the Lord open up his store of good works for you!


        • jesseedavis says:

          From reading your post, I realized just how little I know. Thank you Father! I keep getting told to wrestle the Scriptures, and I’m not sure the depth the Lord is wanting me to go. I’ve actually feared to do so, because I would rather not be stuck studying God’s Word rather than be obeying it. Just a fear of mine.

          I know and see where I’m headed, but how far ahead that is I’m not sure.

          Here’s a question that someone might be able to answer for me. My pastor is wanting me to go to Moody Bible Institute in Chicago, IL. Would it be good to go there, or should that be a place to watch out for?

          • I know what you mean!

            You know when I came to the Lord I received a few decided prophetic messages, these had the ring of scripture, for they promised pain, more pain and guess what right at the end- something good. In these few instances, i remember asking “are you very sure there is not something more (some wayside goodies).”

            I just knew that they applied to me and they did. But they were prophetic and they foretold in chilling detail what lay ahead- and this came to pass.

            I will put to you a post- where I will pass on some practical “how to do its” which if applied will take you to that knowledge you desire and most important grow your stature in the Son of God- which will overshadow all know how. But be careful, sometimes we don’t know what we ask for.

            Its about wisdom put a judo man in the ring with a professional wrestler- the judo man wins every time!

  5. It’s unfortunate some believe their temptations are stronger than the Jesus that lives within them, some believe that their flesh is more powerful that the Power of Christ.

    Some don’t believe that they can submit their whole will to Jesus and keep their flesh in subjection, they believe that the devil, sin, temptations, and their flesh are greater than the Greater One living within them.

    Who really has more power, JESUS, or your temptations?
    Because we have given in to temptations for so long our will to resist is like
    wet bread trying to resist sin. Jesus knows we are weak, that’s why he wishes to
    overcome the temptation for you.

    Jesus can overcome temptation for me?

    Before I answer this question, do you believe Jesus Christ can live above sin?

    Must Christians would answer with an affirmative YES!

    Did you know that Jesus seeks to live within you? If you allow Jesus to live within
    you, He will overcome temptations through you by his power.
    Mediate on the following scriptures..2 Cor 4:10-11, Rom 13:14, Gal 5:16, Rom 8:1-9, 2 Cor 5:17.

    There is a common theme expressed in the above scriptures..
    That the believer is a new creature living by the power of Christ life within him.
    Another way of saying this is; it is the Christian living by the power of Christ or the Christian living by the power of Christ Spirit that lives within them.

    For so long as a Christian I use to struggle with temptations, then one day while praying
    it’s as though God asked me “Will you believe?”

    I said “believe what God?”

    Will you believe Jesus can save you from sin?

    You will get exactly what you BELIEVE!
    If you believe you can never get the victory over sin, you wont.
    But if you believe that “If the SON shall make you free, ye shall be free INDEED, Jesus will bless you according to your faith and deliver you from sin.

    According to your faith God makes it so. God can do nothing beyond what we believe he can do. Remember the story in the Gospels of when Jesus could only heal a few sick folk because of their “unbelief”

    If you BELIEVE Jesus can deliver you from sin, He will DO it. Stop listening to anyone that tells you Jesus is not stronger than your flesh or sin.
    Believe that “Ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free”

    I don’t care how many times you have failed God, get back up, brush yourself off
    ask God for forgiveness and BELIEVE Jesus can deliver you from sin.

    Take a baby step of faith right now – pray the following;
    God I believe Jesus Christ died for my sins, and I know and believe he arose from the grave on the third day.
    God by the Power of the Blood and Resurrection of Jesus Christ I believe!
    God in the Name of Jesus Christ make me free from sin!
    I will believe you God, regardless of temptations.
    Lord I believe YOU are stronger than my flesh,
    Lord I believe YOU are stronger than any temptations that come against me.
    Lord I believe YOU are stronger than the devil.
    I submit my whole will to love and worship You.

    Now you must in faith to Jesus deny the self-life. You must deny self, for the Christ life lives through us as we deny ourselves and live only to the glory of God.

    Are you saying I have to get rid of my pornography?
    Are you saying I can’t smoke a blunt anymore?
    Are you saying I can’t look at ungodly movies anymore?
    Are you saying I have to get rid of anything that may tempt me to sin against God?

    Do you really desire to live above sin, well you are going to have to do anything
    that separates you from temptation. There are some temptations we have no control over, but don’t tempt God by walking in a Casino if you have a problem with gambling or alcohol..duh.

    The devil says “Christian you know you have to live in sin everyday of your life, you know Jesus does not really have the power to make you free from sin”
    But the Bible says “For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me FREE from the law of sin and death.”

    God loves you with an Eternal love and desires you to be just like Jesus, BELIEVE Jesus and the Bible, and tell the devil to take a hike.

  6. jesseedavis says:

    Okay, I see your point Timothy, I’ll explain what I mean. I’ll run down the list of them that I don’t agree with and why. I really don’t mean to be a critic, but Scripture says what it says, and I cannot deny its truth. I would rather you know the truth of God’s Word than the opinions or interpretations.

    9. I agree with everything except for the comment about homosexuality. I understand that it has hardly anything to do with divorce, but the fact is it IS destroying marriages. Marriage is between one man and one woman and to broaden it to include anything else is to place ourselves above God, and to destroy the values and definition of marriage.

    7. The Body of Christ will actually be smaller than we think, not bigger. A lot of our friends won’t be there, I’m sorry. I don’t say this to hurt anyone, but that fact is, only those that believe in Jesus, repent from their sins, and follow Jesus will enter into the Kingdom of Heaven. Keep in mind that not only is the gate narrow, but the way is narrow too.

    5. His analogy was good, and I understand what he means, but it isn’t Biblically sound. First of all, remember that Jesus said even the smallest amount of faith can move mountains. We are not to pray for this and not this, we are to pray for all things. God is the One doing it all, faith is just believing He will. We don’t need more of it, we just need to use it and use it right. Read John 15:7.

    3. The problem with this is that a disobedient decision to go to college is no worse than a disobedient decision to get to work early or to say hi to a certain person.

    2. Favoritism works both ways, taking your friends over strangers or the rich over the poor is favoritism, but so is taking the strangers over your friends and the poor over the rich. We should invite all with no respect to persons.

    • 9. I agree with everything except for the comment about homosexuality. I understand that it has hardly anything to do with divorce, but the fact is it IS destroying marriages. Marriage is between one man and one woman and to broaden it to include anything else is to place ourselves above God, and to destroy the values and definition of marriage.

      This is to the church and the point being made is homosexuality is not responsible for the divorce rate in the church being identical to the worlds. It is not stated as dogma as much as admonition to look to clean up our own house first and not be so busy blaming the world. Yes, I agree that homosexuality is impacting even the church, but our lax attitude toward marriage is in our sphere of influence and needs our main focus.

      7. The Body of Christ will actually be smaller than we think, not bigger. A lot of our friends won’t be there, I’m sorry. I don’t say this to hurt anyone, but that fact is, only those that believe in Jesus, repent from their sins, and follow Jesus will enter into the Kingdom of Heaven. Keep in mind that not only is the gate narrow, but the way is narrow too.

      I agree with you on the quantitative aspect of this comment. Numbers wise I believe it will be smaller, but the qualitative aspect being addressed is simply that people of a ‘lower class’ than the church anticipates being in the Kingdom of God will be there. In that regard it is a bigger spectrum of humanity saved than we act like in our daily evangelism when we reach out.

      5. His analogy was good, and I understand what he means, but it isn’t Biblically sound. First of all, remember that Jesus said even the smallest amount of faith can move mountains. We are not to pray for this and not this, we are to pray for all things. God is the One doing it all, faith is just believing He will. We don’t need more of it, we just need to use it and use it right. Read John 15:7.

      Point taken. The admonition is to seek God for the small things on a daily basis, so when the larger things come we are in a stronger position of faith to believe for them.

      Personally, I think faith is faith and it is there or it isn’t. If it is there, it is there for the big and small things. If it isn’t, it isn’t. I question people who say they believe in heaven, but do not believe for healing. It is easier to say we believe for something we cannot verify or disprove, than to pray to be healed and really expect to see it happen in our lives. If I cannot believe for what I can see, do I really believe for what I cannot?

      3. The problem with this is that a disobedient decision to go to college is no worse than a disobedient decision to get to work early or to say hi to a certain person.

      I believe the point being made is not to reduce our resolve to do the big things right, it is to use the example of how much importance we place on the big things and have us likewise address the little things.

      2. Favoritism works both ways, taking your friends over strangers or the rich over the poor is favoritism, but so is taking the strangers over your friends and the poor over the rich. We should invite all with no respect to persons.
      amen. That is the point. We are not to get stuck in the rut of seeking out those who we desire to sit by in church, but those who need Jesus.

      Jessee, thanks for taking the time to break it down. It makes the discussion clearer and I have an appreciation for what you are saying. These 10 points are provocative. I see them as random musings rather than doctrinal statements. Much like the parables of Jesus, there is a point being made but the illustration will break down when applied strictly over a broad spectrum.

      Blessings and Peace,

      • jesseedavis says:

        Okay, I understand what you mean. Faith is faith, but remember we all have been given a measure of faith, so it is not whether we have it or not, but I understand what I mean.

  7. It is interesting to see the responses coming in, keep them coming. There are ten random thoughts in my nephew’s note I posted. For the sake of clarity, please quote or list the point you are taking objection to so we can dialog on the same page.

    Peer, Have you personally ministered to someone in prayer for cancer and seen it supernaturally healed? I would like to know if you are calling this into question based on experience or is this simply an intellectual debate based on theory. I can then proceed with the discussion accordingly. Your approach in entering this dialog appears combative, not cooperative, as though you are calling me out as a heretic for posting my nephew’s comments. Is this the case? If it is, why have you chosen to handle it in this manner? If it is not, please let me know so I do not feel like I am casting pearls into a bad attitude.

    Thanks, Blessings and Peace,

    • Hi Timothy-

      probably the writing style- the content challenged but did not imply heresy- it was after all a ten point list. Each reader must separate smoky posts from substance. Who knows the origin of a post- if it builds the spirit keep it, if not throw it away.

      Your questions:
      > ministering to cancer victim?
      > intellectual smoke?

      You have already answered the questions- If you have someone in mind who has a serious illness or disease- pass their name onto me and i will pray for the person.


  8. jesseedavis says:

    Faith is believing God will do it. Jesus constantly pointed out that you don’t need hardly any faith to do even the “greatest” of tasks. Why is this? Because it isn’t us doing it, it is God. We don’t need to pray for faith, we need to use the faith we already have. If our tiny little faith can bring us into the very Kingdom of God, than it can move a tiny little mountain without even the slightest problem.

    We should pray not for our faith, but for our perspective, because we tend to make things bigger than God. Cancer, genocides, earthquakes, hurricanes, tornadoes, asteroids, black holes, all of these things are nothing in the eyes of God. We should pray not for more faith, but rather the activation of our faith.

    Look throughout Scripture and you will see that God would rather use His very own instead of doing it Himself and it hasn’t changed. Next time you hear about someone dieing from cancer or something like that, remember that it is more likely that it was disobedience from His Children than it was His will that it happened.

  9. jesseedavis says:

    The man that wrote this seems to be viewing things through carnal eyes instead of the eyes of the Lord.

    • 1. You can’t live the Christian life without supernatural help. That means everything – loving your neighbor, not sinning, being joyful, patient, caring – not just healing the sick, raising the dead etc… Stop trying – it was meant to be impossible so we would turn to God for help!

      I do not understand how you can say he seems to be viewing it through carnal eyes.

      Blessings and Peace,

  10. My question to you JustAGuy- what is the danger?

    JustAGuy- why not start with cancer? or the demolition of an unruly house that is destroying one’s peace? What does Scripture say JustAguy?

    Do we pray first for the healing- or should we not pray first for faith itself?

    Take a man who intends to purchase an air ticket.

    Faith is like that cell message confirming a deposit prior to the deposit landing in one’s account. It is a foolish man who books the plain ticket on the basis of a hope without assurance that the deposit has been made (note I say assurance- not proof)

    However, when that notifying message arrives- the wise man immediately secures the seat of his choice and books- yesterday!

    But the man who books without such notification is no more than a gambler. Yes, the booking might go through- but if it does woe is this man for he faces great danger!

    My question to you JustAGuy- what is this danger?

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