Welcome,
Joseph Prince - Antinomian Megastar and Teacher of Lawless Grace
Entering the local Koorong Christian bookstore yesterday, I immediately noticed a book with an attractive looking young Asian man on the cover. The picture was of Joseph Prince, the title of the book, "Destined to Reign", and the subtitle went as follows: "The secret to effortless success, wholeness and victorious living."
Wow. Effortless Success! Amazing! And this young man can teach me the secret to this! Folks, there's one born every minute. Even the front cover of this book should tell you that something is wrong.
The Bible tells us in 2 Timothy 4 the following, and I used it for the biblical basis of why I would take the time to write an article like this:
"I charge you therefore before God and the Lord Jesus Christ, who will judge the living and the dead at His appearing and His kingdom:
Preach the word! Be ready in season and out of season. Convince, rebuke, exhort, with all longsuffering and teaching.
For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers;
and they will turn their ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to fables.
But you be watchful in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, fulfill your ministry."
(2 Timothy 4:1-5)
The apostle Paul tells us here to convince, rebuke and exhort with all longsuffering and teaching. So by the grace of God we will do that.
Now Joseph Prince uses the writings of the apostle Paul, in particular verses like Romans 5:17 and other verses about God's mercy and grace to establish his position. If Joseph Prince and his followers wish to quote the apostle Paul as a source of true inspiration, they should be willing to listen to everything he said under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit and not just construct something pleasing to the ear out of selected portions of the Scripture. If Prince is a lover of truth, he has to deal with all the New Testament Scriptures and not just some favorite ones.
The warning here is a prophecy given by God. It says that the time will come when God's people will begin to heap for themselves teachers who will speak to them according to their desires, according to what their itching ears want to hear. Now I don't know about you, but the idea of "effortless success" kind of appeals to me. And before I learned to love righteousness and hate wickedness, the idea of unconditional forgiveness and acceptance from God while I serve my own desires was also kind of appealing. It was something I could believe in, because I wanted to, and so did many of the people I knew. If you read my testimony, you will know that I thought I was a Christian because I believed certain doctrines about God's forgiveness being available to me through the cross of Christ - and I thought I could live for myself while still receiving these benefits. The idea of needing to REPENT of sin seemed way to narrow for us. We would have called it "legalistic".
If you and I can have "effortless success", then why did Jesus Christ make the following statement?
Luke 13:24 Make every effort to enter through the narrow door, because many, I tell you, will try to enter and will not be able to. (NIV). In the New King James: "Strive to enter through the narrow gate, for many, I say to you, will seek to enter and will not be able."
Jesus, if I can have "effortless success", Ps Joseph Prince tells me in a top selling book in a respected Christian bookstore and around the world, why do you tell me to "make every effort" to enter salvation, or even worse, to "strive".
And Jesus, if you were so keen to do away with the moral requirements of the law, why did you seem to make it even tougher when you said:
Mat 5:27 "You have heard that it was said to those of old, 'YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT ADULTERY.'
Mat 5:28 But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart.
Mat 5:29 If your right eye causes you to sin, pluck it out and cast it from you; for it is more profitable for you that one of your members perish, than for your whole body to be cast into hell.
Mat 5:30 And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and cast it from you; for it is more profitable for you that one of your members perish, than for your whole body to be cast into hell.
Jesus, is that teaching really for us today, or were you just being a bit tough on the Jewish people of the time because they were under the law anyway, and you wanted to rub it in until your servant Paul could come and change the message for you?
There are hundreds of passages which don't fit in nicely with the idea of effortless success or salvation without repentance, but we live in a biblically illiterate age, where church people are too busy pursuing wealth and material success to have time to study the Bible. So for this reason, people flock to charismatic pastors like Joseph Prince whose theological education is limited to get their feel good message for the week to keep them motivated and upbeat about the week ahead. I understand that, but I see it as idolatrous nonetheless. We MUST study God's Word for ourselves at some stage in our lives, and heavily, if we are going to avoid being pulled into the Last Day's Deception which the Bible promises us and which in fact seems to be upon us now also in the charismatic, full gospel church scene.
I first heard about Joseph Prince from my pastor at the time on the Gold Coast who heard him speak at a Hillsong Conference. This pastor told me he considered Joseph Prince to be a false teacher, that he teaches salvation without the need for repentance or godly living, and that to preach the Ten Commandments at all makes you a "preacher of death". Hearing this report made me lose more respect for Brian Houston, the leader of the Hillsong Megachurch. For you see, Brian Houston must be very appreciative of the teachings of Joseph Prince. This is evidenced firstly by the repeated invitations to minister at the huge Hillsong Conferences, and secondly by the glowing endorsement Houston wrote on the back of the book I just referred to. But rather than focus at this stage on names, I would like to look at the actual ideas that Joseph Prince is promoting, and compare them with Scripture. In the end it will be for my readers to decide which doctrine they will believe, and which doctrine conforms most to the spirit and intent of the Scriptures as they are written.
I hope to write more on this subject later and soon, because the situation can't be properly addressed in a short blog post like this one. But it should be addressed as it relates to the very core of what our faith is about, and the issue of what God requires for those who wish to be reconciled to Him and saved. And because there is a real dearth of courageous pastors in the Pentecostal movement who are willing to rebuke false teachers, I, even I, will have a go. If the Lord should reveal further truth to myself or others in this process, may His Name be praised. We need a love of the truth to even make it into Christ's Eternal Kingdom these days. The love of the truth is going to cost us something. Its NOT going to be effortless. Yes, Christ's grace DOES empower us in the fight, and without Christ's grace we would be utterly inadequate. It is to the true grace of God I look in order to be saved in these last days.
Let us remember the words of Jesus Christ:
Matthew 7:21 "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.
Matthew 7:22 Many will say to Me in that day, 'Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?'
Matthew 7:23 And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!'
God's grace be with you.
Michael
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Comments
Overall michael at worst your
Overall michael at worst your post is a bit slanderous and definitely 'cheeky' (in your vernacular). Red flags go up when I see some of the statements you make about JP. To say he is a Teacher of Lawless Grace is completely distorting what JP teaches and actually slanderous.
" and I thought I could live for myself while still receiving these benefits."
You keep emphasizing that the object of JP teachings on grace is that he is tickling ears of those who want to live anyway they want. Nothing could be further from the truth and the only way one would come to that conclusion is by not honestly and throughly listening to what he says and writes.
The grace that JP teaches has as its object, for the Christian, to abandon his own flailings and efforts and throw himself on the grace of God - not so he can live anyway he wants, guilt-free - but to empower him to live in complete fellowship with God and experience the wonderful holiness of God. One cannot experience the holiness of God in his own power. The Law established this. Jesus came to live the Holy life we couldn't and once perfected, the second man Adam's life is then imparted to one who believes. He receives a new creation that CANNOT sin just as in the first man Adam he received a nature that COULD NOT do a single thing righteous and actually is resistant to God, hates God.
But we still live with the old nature and the only way we can live holy unto God is to walk in the Spirit, so that we do not fulfill the lusts of the flesh. We PUT ON the new man. But one cannot walk confidently in this grace if one is always alienated to God through condemnation (hence Romans 7/8). GRACE EMPOWERS the believer and ENCOURAGES the believer that, we no longer have to hide from God as Adam did in the garden. We are encouraged to come BOLDLY into the throne of grace for a reason. God says, "Quit looking at yourself and look at ME, I am your VICTORY."
GRACE is indeed RADICAL and beyond our normal understanding, of course it is, it is from God. So when someone is bold enough to reveal what Grace really is about, you hear gasps and people misunderstanding the message as it is so, RADICAL. Grace enables what the Law could not, that is, HOLINESS and the only way to that HOLINESS is Jesus. We have to give up on ourselves, receive God's complete assurance of forgiveness, that we are not to concern ourselves with trying to fulfill the Law (we simply can't) and instead find our life hidden with Christ who will write the Law on our heart. It is automatically fulfilled in the Love that is spread in our hearts through the Spirit.
But if we are constantly beign mental on whether we are saved or not or 'performing' or else our fellowship with Him is broken, how can we honestly keep our eyes on Jesus. God saw the problem and solved it with GRACE. The foundation of our building has to be the FINISHED work of Christ on the cross, without this we cannot build. Christ's imputed righteousness gives us the legal right to approach the throne of GRACE boldy, to work out his holiness experientially by the Spirit.
The only thing I might take issue with JP is when he says that Jesus only meant change our minds about the way we are saved when he said Repent. Jesus of course was speaking of 'changing', repent of our previous behaviour by changing our minds about it, turn from it, don't just say you are sorry and keep doing it. At that time the grace covenant wasn't enacted yet as he hadn't died on the cross so this couldn't have been what Jesus was speaking of. NOW, without his GRACE we can't actually do that, even that (repentance) is only done in the Grace and Spirit of God. So his hearers could actually repent, in the effort of their own flesh, and be frustrated when they found themselves continually failing, something he provided a solution for in the New Covenant. Neverthelss it is still true, that they needed to repent. Again, even the ability to REPENT is provided by the Spirit and the Grace of God.
Proof
The slanderous remarks here are proof to me that Knowledge puffeth up & love edifies. Anyone can twist the word ro make someone else look bad - not impressed by this
"Necessary Repentance"
Did you know that the word "repent" isn't even in the book of John? Also, what sin did Jesus ever ask any of those He healed in the scriptures of which to repent before He healed them? None. If repentance is REQUIRED to be accepted into Heaven, then sir/madam, I'd suggest to get to repenting right now. Get on your knees and stay there for the remaining years of your life. You're probably sinning right now; there are so many evil thoughts bound up within your very soul that you'd spend the rest of your days listing them. The Lord told us that a man's heart "...is above ALL things utterly wicked...." You've (we all) have enough bad thoughts in our SLEEP to send us to Hell with a broken back! Begin praising the Lord and His Son, JESUS and the Holy Spirit that lives within us for the GRACE that has so RICHLY been poured out upon us!!! Hallelujah!! (P.S. I'm wondering if the clothes you're wearing right now could be donated to the poor? You know, you could probably go to a garage sale and wear cheaper costing clothing and give the rest of the money you'd ordinarily spend on clothing to the poor--will you have to answer to God for that? Also, I'm thinking you could sell your car and buy a less expensive car and give the rest of the money to the poor? Will you have to answer to God for that? How MUCH repenting is "required" to be acceptable? Beloved, our salvation was NOT FREE--because JESUS PAID IT ALL--not ME, not YOU! JESUS! Our salvation has nothing to do with what we DO and everything to do with what JESUS already DID.) Blessings!
repentance re
you do era not knowing the truth of repentance,all sin from day 1 of salvation,God throws our past in the sea of forgetfulness, know if 1 cannot get through the day without committing sin,then he has not found true salvation,we are brand new in Christ, Salvation is the beginning of new life,no one is able to pluck us out of God;s hand!! we must choose to jump out,in order to fail ,other wise we don;t have to take whatever we get,, I'm the child of a King,a royal heir, My father will take care of his own! God owns the cattle on a thousand hills,also the hills, Charaty starts at home first,then if we can go past that,praise God! Many rather give to strangers rather than their own family,they want to impress,but they have all the reward they are going to get.
Repentance in the book of John
Its not about the word "repent". Its about obedience to Christ's commandments. In the book of John, Jesus said:
"He who has my commandments and KEEPS THEM, it is HE who loves me. And he who loves me will be loved by My Father, and we will come and make our home in him." (John 14:21)
"If anyone loves me, he will keep my Word" (John 14:23)
Jesus also said in John 8:42
"If God were your Father, ye would love me"
The conclusion from John's writings is clear: If you don't love Jesus, God is not your Father. And if you love Jesus, you will keep His Word. So if you don't think that is necessary, its because you don't know the real Jesus.
Of all apostles, John is one of the most severe on sin. Just read 1 John and you will find this out.
1Jn 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
1Jn 3:10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.
1Jn 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
I hope you can see that the apostle John's writings don't help your cause of spreading the message that obedience to God is not needed for salvation.
As far as having some possessions - yes, many are going to be in trouble for their selfish hoarding of luxury items and their personal indulgence while people are perishing.
But you have to look at these things as a business decision. I already have the cheapest reliable car I can get. Runs on LPG and costs $5000. Negligible maintenance costs. Cheaper clothes? I can run a garage sale and sell my clothes, but what is the cost in time, what is the opportunity cost. Isn't it just better to do something that can earn some money, and then invest excess money in projects the Lord shows?
Also, sometimes, looking cheap and being cheap is counterproductive in terms of getting the results you need in society. Everyone will answer before God for this. Some people might need to drive a fancy car in order to get certain business deals worth a lot more than the car. So it is bad stewardship to be too cheap sometimes.
Concerning grace: it is REAL GRACE that you are denying. You clearly don't think God can give power to live a clean life with clean thoughts. The Bible on the other hand says we have promises and so can "perfect holiness out of reverence for Christ". Grace is divine power and enabling to transform and make holy, amongst other things. You believe a different gospel, one in which Jesus died so you could happily go on living without consequences in ways God throws other people to hell for.
About Selecting Scriptures
I will be commenting on your view at the top of the page.
These are your words: “Now Joseph Prince uses the writings of the apostle Paul, in particular verses like Romans 5:17 and other verses about God's mercy and grace to establish his position. If Joseph Prince and his followers wish to quote the apostle Paul as a source of true inspiration, they should be willing to listen to everything he said under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit and not just construct something pleasing to the ear out of selected portions of the Scripture. If Prince is a lover of truth, he has to deal with all the New Testament Scriptures and not just some favorite ones.”
If a person is going to preach on grace that person is naturally going to pick verses that pertain to grace. If a person preaches on tithing, that person is going to pick Scriptures that pertain to tithing. If that person is preaching on salvation, that person is going to select verses pertaining to salvation.
Also, I have noticed that you tend to pick Scriptures that relate to what you are talking about. What I am saying is that it is only natural to select passages that pertain to the topic on which one is preaching.
Re: selecting Scriptures
Of course we select Scriptures, but when we INTERPRET those Scriptures in ways which are contradictory to the plain teaching of OTHER Scriptures - esp. New Testament Scriptures, which speak to the issue, our interpretations and our teachings are FALSE and may be extremely DANGEROUS to certain hearers.
Re: JP"s Preaching
*
In my mind, when I read what each has written, I see truth from both sides.
But what actually is taking place in this conversation is.
1) Michael is making his statements according to what he thinks JP is preaching, and by what he thinks JP is misconstruing as truth.
2) Sunrise is making her statements in defense of JP, attempting to explain what JP meant by what he said.
3) Neither side of the debate can definitively say, for, or against just what JP's intention was when he spoke, we can't know what was in his heart, therefore any conversation about what JP said what JP meant is a circular conversation.
We are told
1Jn 4:1,2
1) Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
2) Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
Php 1:18
What then? notwithstanding, every way, whether in pretence, or in truth, Christ is preached; and I therein do rejoice, yea, and will rejoice.
Luk 9:50
And Jesus said unto him, Forbid him not: for he that is not against us is for us.
Mat 7:15-20
15) Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
16) Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
17) Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
18) A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
19) Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
20) Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
Does Joseph Prince confess Jesus Christ is come in the flesh, is Christ preached, forbid him not, but judge his fruit.
Is the Ministry of Joseph Prince riddled with scandal, ie, (divorce, adultery, homosexuality)?
Be Blessed
JIM
Reports that come to me
indicate that there are a lot of dodgy looking things and people going on there. BUT, I have heard from someone who actually went to that church and has since migrated to Australia, that you can't be in leadership if you are in an adulterous relationship. That's nice to know.
A lot of megachurches operate as "crowds" of religious "consumers" where standards only apply to "inner-circle" members - i.e. "leaders".
Word of Faith
Pastor Joseph Prince's teaching ain't any new. What he preaches is the asian-ised version of Kenneth Copeland teachings, word of faith. North America is literary swamped with this, taking different forms from preacher to preacher. Some put more accent on positive confession, others on prosperity, others on healing - a false gospel all together. I can understand why so many defend pastor JP: it takes basic foundational understanding of the Bible for discernment to take place, and that's something that's never told in those churches.
In the end it's all about power and money: when you see that hapenning, revealing the false doctrine is just a matter of exercising your biblical knowlegde.
I dont think Copeland
I think He said Kenneth Hagin
Is it Word of Faith or is it False Teaching on Grace?
Actually I don't take major issue to some of the teachings in the Word of Faith movement as they were given say by people like Kenneth E. Hagin. In my view he was a lot more solid than some of those who came afterwards. In fact, towards the end of his life, Hagin rebuked some of the excesses going on with some in the "word of faith" movement, in a book he wrote called "The Midas Touch".
Kenneth Copeland it seems to me mixes truth and error. He always seems to be about exalting his own person more even than the person of Jesus Christ. I really don't care how many aeroplanes Copeland has managed to accumulate out of donations from his "partners". Really we all have to give account of our stewardship and the message about being rich and flaunting it really doesn't excite me at all.
But at least Copeland (moreso his wife) (at times) preach a message of holiness. This is where Joseph Prince is ultra-dangerous, because his core message is that you can enter heaven without really changing.
No matter how much truth might be found in aspects of Joseph Prince's ministry, the fact that he teaches that you can be saved without repentance and overcoming sin makes him extremely dangerous. You can see on this page how some of his fans even MOCK the idea of the fear of God, or the requirement of holy living.
I'm sure Joseph Prince would preach the financial prosperity doctrines, because that is one part of the message you can preach without having any emphasis on really denying yourself and taking up the cross of Christ. It is very pleasing to people whose basic desire in life is to enjoy this world as much as they can and still feel that they will enter the Kingdom of Heaven also when they die.
The Bible talks about what the grace of God REALLY is in certain passages such as this one:
11For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men. 12It teaches us to say “No” to ungodliness and worldly passions, and to live self-controlled, upright and godly lives in this present age, 13while we wait for the blessed hope—the glorious appearing of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ, 14who gave himself for us to redeem us from all wickedness and to purify for himself a people that are his very own, eager to do what is good.
15These, then, are the things you should teach. Encourage and rebuke with all authority. Do not let anyone despise you.
Grace
I’m glad you quoted this particular Scripture. It says that grace is what brings salvation. It didn’t specify what kind of grace. That is because there is only one kind of grace. What does it say next? It [meaning grace] teaches what? Grace teaches us to say NO to ungodliness and worldly passions, so you don’t have to worry about a believer going hog wild into sin. Grace also teaches us to live self-controlled, upright and godly lives. All of this is actually the work of the Holy Spirit. Next it said that Jesus did what? He redeemed us from ALL wickedness. He doesn’t redeem a person from some of his or her sins, but all of them. His redemption is not temporary, but eternal. He has redeemed us for life. He purified us and made us his very own.
When a person is born into the family of God that person is a babe in Christ. God doesn’t zap that person and make him or her a mature Christian the minute he or she is saved. Maturity takes time. These new Christians are going to have to learn what God wants from them. They cannot learn it all at one time, so they will probably make mistakes along the way. But, God will work with them to conform them to the image of His Son despite their failures.
Only one kind of grace?
I agree with much of what you say here in fact. I would like you to have a read of my most recent article Justification by Faith: What does it mean?
But you said there is only one kind of grace. Well, that may be true in some technical sense, but 1 Peter 4:10 talks about the "manifold grace of God". "Grace" is a much BIGGER word than many realise. It is about all that God does in a person's life. It is not merely some kind of unmerited get-out-of-jail-free card that people can receive or think they receive.
Grace is what empowers the spiritual gifts. Grace is the power of God. Paul frequently talked about the grace given to him as an apostle. This is not the same grace as the grace which saves a person, but it is all from the same God.
Michael
You're right when you say, "Grace" is a much BIGGER word than many realise." That might be a good topic for the folks out there to research.
Now I have recently read all of Hebrews chapter 9. I have selected a few verses from that passage.
Hebrews 9:11, 12, 15
11) But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building;
12) Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption [for us].
15) And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions [that were] under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance .
What I get from this is that a Christian’s salvation is eternal and whatever a Christian inherits along with that is eternal. Now the problem lies in how to justify these verses with some of the other verses in the Bible. There has to be a solution, because God is not a God of confusion. He would not tell you one thing and me another. However, it does sound like something that satan would do to render the church ineffective for Christ.
Re: Grace Research
HI Sunrise
I have found through a study of the word GRACE,
Grace is used 120 times in the New Testament, always with the same definition.
G5485
graciousness (as gratifying), of manner or act (abstract or concrete; literal, figurative or spiritual; especially the (DEVINE INFLUENCE UPON THE HEART) , and (IT'S REFLECTION IN THE LIFE); including gratitude): - acceptable, benefit, favour, gift, grace (-ious), joy liberality, pleasure, thank (-s, -worthy).
I have found that Grace in the Old Testament, is used 37 times with the same definition.
H2580
From H2603; graciousness, that is, subjectively (kindness, favor) or objectively (beauty): - favour, grace (-ious), pleasant, precious, [well-] favoured.
H2603
properly ( TO BEND OR STOOP IN KINDNESS TO AN INFERIOR); to favor, bestow; causatively to implore (that is, move to favor by petition): - beseech, X fair, (be, find, shew) favour (-able), be (deal, give, grant (gracious (-ly), intreat, (be) merciful, have (shew) mercy (on, upon), have pity upon, pray, make supplication, X very.
It therefore appears as though Grace in itself does not change, in other words, (Grace is Grace is Grace), but the application of that Grace may very well be different, with regard to the circumstances of need.
Grace is always expressed from God to man, always from the greater towards the lesser, we (Christians) are then required to express that same Grace to others through Love, Charity, and Works.
To forgive a wrong, is an act of Grace.
Grace is always
benefit, favour, gift, graciousness, kindness, mercy, pity.
In regard to the word ("Manifold) grace of God".
G4164
motley, that is, various in character: - divers, manifold.
So Grace connot be defined as What God Does, but "WHY" He does it.
Be Blessed
JIM
To lookingforacity Concerning Grace
Well said. Good insight.
Michael [part 2]
While we are busy wearing out our computers criticizing or defending Joseph Prince and his ministry and challenging one another on our beliefs, the devil is busy destroying people’s lives. If he can just get the people of God distracted, he has accomplished his goal.
don't forget the devil coming disguised as an angel of light
don't forget the devil coming disguised as an angel of light....
Christians are to spread the gospel to all the world and not keep it secret like a masonic code! If one pretends to be an angel of light but doesn't communicate ALL truth to brothers using any means possible, then you can know its the devil prtending to be a representative of goodness and salvation. Demons will always lie, except to give small bits of truth to confuse. True kristians don't wear masks to hide, evade and twist truth. Anyone who tells you they do is a LIAR!
michael
Michael, Grace is God's love for us. Out of love, flows things like gifts. Just as you would give a gift to your CHILD out of love. But it all has to do with love. You are looking at the ant with a magnifying glasses and saying it's the size of a rat. No it's not a bigger definition, just a BIGGER love for you and me.
You don't want me answer right? Let's see what Jesus said
Mark 12:28
"29 “The most important one,” answered Jesus, “is this: ‘Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one.[e] 30 Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.’[f] 31 The second is this: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’[g] There is no commandment greater than these.”
Now why would Jesus said there is no commandment greater than these? And why would John say
1John 3
23 And this is HIS COMMAND: to believe in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ, and to love one another as he commanded us.
Now why are these focused? Let's check on someone who does follow the commandments like the rich young man who had FOLLOWED all the commandments. Someone who thought that Grace wasn't sufficient. Read carefully, when God said the commandments, the rich man said "all these I have kept, what do I still lack?" and Jesus told him to sell everything and follow him. As the young man walked away his disciples asked
Matthew 19: 25-26
"25 When the disciples heard this, they were greatly astonished and asked, “Who then can be saved?”
26 Jesus looked at them and said, “With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.”"
With God... You need his grace. I do good because of his love. If I am judged based on my works, I will continue to lack something and fail.
Now compare that Rich young man to Zacchaeu. Zacchaeu is a tax collector a sinner. Compare the self-rightous young man and the response by Jesus to him and to Zacchaeu who "just wanted to see Jesus".
Luke 19: 5-8
" 5 When Jesus reached the spot, he looked up and said to him, “Zacchaeus, come down immediately. I must stay at your house today.” 6 So he came down at once and welcomed him gladly.
7 All the people saw this and began to mutter, “He has gone to be the guest of a sinner.”
8 But Zacchaeus stood up and said to the Lord, “Look, Lord! Here and now I give half of my possessions to the poor, and if I have cheated anybody out of anything, I will pay back four times the amount.”
When you compare yourself to your ability to follow the commandments, you fall short. Just as the rich young man. But when God shows his grace... you can't HELP but LOVE and GIVE too... WITHOUT even been asked. Because whoever is loved by God can't help it but give.. care..
When you realize this... you will feel LOVED by God more than ever. I have.
Zaccheus
The rich young man
The rich young man said he had kept the commandments, but actually, Jesus showed him that he had not. His wealth was an idol to him, something of higher priority than God and God's will. That was a violation of the first commandment.
So the law reveals the lack of love in the life of that man.
Now if Jesus followed Joseph Prince, he would have told the rich young ruler something like this: "No big deal, you are doing more than enough. Be secure in your salvation! Just believe in me, no change is required, and you will have the privilege of tithing to my ministry! That way, you can get even richer while you bless the Kingdom and find personal significance!"
Now listen: if LOVE is the commandment, then that either God requires it of saved people or He doesn't. If he doesn't, why mention it? If He does, then there will be a need for repentance - change. Because love requires an abandoning of self and selfishness.
I believe that what God requires of us is a deep trust in Him who is One with His Word - and this will mean loads of change for all of us.
God gives time to repent, as I have said in other places. But to say repentance is not necessary is just plain unfaithful to Scripture. This is the point at issue as far as I am concerned.
rich man
Can you give up all your wealth to follow God? If you can't, is your wealth an idol to you? He was to donate ALL. Can you? You make it sound easy when even the disciples asked how: “Who then can be SAVED:!!!!, if the law or the commandment requires you to sacrifice ALL YOU HAVE. And you wonder, why would these disciples, who HAD left everything they have and FOLLOWED God, ask him that question. It's because, YOU can't do it on your own. It's impossible. You NEED Jesus. Hence the statement " “With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.”" It's not YOUR work because even if you TRY to meet what you can, where you FALL short at... means you fall short at all...does it not? You THINK you know, but you really don't.
You say Zaccheus illustrates repentance, but did you know Grace leads to repentance. That's what Pastor Prince would have told you too. Look at Zaccheus, what came first... did he ask for repentance for God showed HIS GRACE or was it GRACE!!!! that caused him to repent. Now just repent… he even GAVE!
Another example, the an adulteress woman was brought to Jesus during a sermon.
John 8
“Teacher, this woman was caught in the act of adultery. 5 In the Law Moses commanded us to stone such women. Now what do you say?” 6 They were using this question as a trap, in order to have a basis for accusing him.
But Jesus bent down and started to write on the ground with his finger. 7 When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, “Let any one of you who is without sin be the first to throw a stone at her.” 8 Again he stooped down and wrote on the ground.
9 At this, those who heard began to go away one at a time, the older ones first, until only Jesus was left, with the woman still standing there. 10 Jesus straightened up and asked her, “Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?”
11 “No one, sir,” she said.
“Then neither do I condemn you,” Jesus declared. “Go now and leave your life of sin.”
? Jesus says to an adulterer “Neither do I condemn you”. He showed his grace and then he says ‘leave your life of sin’. OVER AND OVER, all God does is show is grace while EVERYONE around him is judging people for their failure to keep the law and repent….
Love Trumps Money Everyday
Love Trumps Money Everyday, but both are nice. Just remember, you can't take either with you to Heaven or hell, so you'd best not squander either. Our time on this planet is but a blink of an eye and.....Live Life with NO Regrets.
The cross of Jesus
Praise be to Jesus for Joseph Prince. He is bringing people back to the cross.
My parents and grandparents are missionaries, although the only boast I really have is in Jesus' love for me. What Joseph Prince preaches is the real deal. Abundant life with Jesus. If you want to experience God in the way of George Muller, AW Tozer or Watchman Nee- listen to Joseph Prince. Jesus upset a lot of religious people in His day. Praise be to God that Joseph is doing the same, as he leads us back to the simplicity, beauty and grace of the cross.
Praise be to God if indeed
Praise be to God if indeed it is true that Joseph Prince is leading people back to the simplicity of the need to die to self and not live for the things of this world. Praise be if indeed he is telling people that the grace of the cross will bring us into conflict with the world to the point they will hate and persecute and even kill us! The cross of Jesus is not where we find abundance in this life, it is where we come to trade the ease and comforts of this world, laying hold of an eternal reward that cannot be taken! This is why thousands upon thousands of Christians each year are martyred.... This is why the early church sold all its possessions and held all in common. I am glad to hear that Mr. Prince is not merely teaching things that are pleasing to the ear and that seek to make us comfortable in this world by embracing its lifestyle and its prosperity message while the rest of the world goes to hell because we have spent our resources on ourselves and our mega churches.
Read the writings of Muller and Tozer
Muller and Tozer preached holiness of heart and life as a requirement for following Jesus. Do a google search for "the New Cross Tozer" and you will find that Tozer utterly rebukes the kind of "cross" preached by Joseph Prince. See http://faithbiblechurchnh.org/tozer_new_cross.htm and read it.
Watchman Nee was more ambiguous. His writings are so esoteric and mystical you can come up with all kinds of conclusions by reading them. One moment he is recommending holiness and the next moment he is telling people that the sins they do in the body have no bearing on their salvation.
As for upsetting religious people in his day, the argument cuts both ways. See, the Pharisees were lovers of money, they were in the religious majority, they had more followers than Jesus, and they sat on Moses' seat (see Matthew 23). Its true they put tough rules on people and they were hypocrites. Jesus rebuked them because they made their own man-made traditions more important than the commandments of God. He told them that they were not children of God because they would not listen to His Word. Today, Jesus would also no doubt rebuke many of the leading religious figures in our world - who also "like" money and personal luxury, have huge followings, and teach people to refuse to listen to the sayings of Jesus.
See, once you have a doctrine that says you can do as you please and still enter the Kingdom of Heaven, then you no longer need to receive Jesus as Lord of your life, you just take Him on board (you think) as an occasional lifestyle consultant when things aren't working out too well, or you need more money. This is not Christianity.
The Cross
AMEN!!
To Gulfshark and others as well......
Wow, Gulfshark I did pray for and will continue!! If you sensed something wrong with Joseph Prince and his preaching, it would be satan tring to steer you away from the TRUTH!! That would HAVE to be the only answer, because Pastor Prince is a truly anointed man of God!! If you purchased a book and cd for $5 I am sure that the cost of the book and cd to his ministry was more than you paid!!! I also know that it was a major investment in your growing in the true knowledge of God, if you read the book and listen to the cd that is!! Not to mention your $5 will help further God's Kingdom by getting more teaching of God's Word out to others ! The reason the money amount goes so high is because of people and or businesses who can afford to give that much. If I had it to give to his ministry I would give $50,000 or more!!! Pastor Prince not only reads and speaks from the Bible in his teaching, he breaks it down like no other preacher I've listened to! ( I've been a believer for 37 years ) when you say he doesn't read from the Bible he has people who work with him and or for him that put it on the screen for us who watch him on tv, and on overhead monitors for those at his church!! If you need help growing in God's Word listen to Pastor Prince's teaching, he is TRULY anointed to preach the Gospel!! Also to Michael , he does teach about repentance. He says ( and I believe it ) once we understand Grace and how MUCH God loves us THAT WILL bring us to repentance!!!
Once we understand grace ...
It is true that the kindness of God brings us to repentance.
We are given time to repent.
Now if it is true that "once we understand Grace and how MUCH God loves us THAT WILL bring us to repentance" then I would like to ask one thing:
"How many people in Joseph Prince's church have really understood grace and how much God loves them?"
Because if they haven't repented, if they are still living according to Galatians 5:17-19 and 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 then by YOUR definition, they haven't understood grace or God's love.
And that wouldn't be good.
But the Scriptures will stand with integrity forever.
And those who deny that ongoing repentance is necessary for salvation will have to give account to God for what that teaching produced in people's lives.
Steady now, people.
GulfShark- The word meditate means to focus on or to think about. The book of Genesis tells us that Isaac son of Abraham was meditating out in the field when his future wife was arriving. So meditating on the Word of God is not a bad thing is it? I admit I was also taken aback when I saw that title only because of the initial meaning I had learned, which of course had to do with new age crap. (i can call it crap can't I? because it is!) The devil has perverted the word to mean something evil instead. The devil loves to mock God.
Michael- I don't think Joseph was talking about intentionally sinning in sermon 240. I think he was more talking about being conscious of the law and how if Jesus makes us dead to the law then we shouldn't be conscious of how people are breaking the law but should take action when people are obeying the law. Because anyone who puts themselves under the law places themselves under judgement the bible says. They will be trying to earn the forgiveness that Jesus has already paid for us on the cross. Paul rebukes a church for teaching about the law because knowledge of the law destroys faith. And so the miracles that were happening in the church stopped happening. I think that's more what Josephs concern is about. Not "hey, Jesus died so we are free to sin and get away with it" No, I think his main concern was those people who are still focused on the law instead of Gods grace. Because if you are conscious of the law and feel guilt, then you havn't fully accepted Jesus work on the cross which cleanses us of our sins. Of course, you also have the other extreme from legalism to liberalism which is the focus of this blog. But as I pointed out, I don't think Joseph was preaching liberalism.
"You can't stop the birds flying about your head, but you can stop them from making nests in your hair." So we are to cast out those people who are proud of teaching the law, or pride in their promiscuity or whatever to protect ourselves from compromising on correct doctrine. I think that's what the scripture about cutting off parts of the body was all about. "one body in Christ" It was so that that part of the body, that person, can't drag everyone else down with them. Be it practicing one extreme or the other.
I have heard that the books John, Romans, Thessalonians and Hebrews tell you 75% of what the bible is all about. They focus heavily on doctrine. All we can do is read those and ask the Holy Spirit to give us a discerning heart in it. To meditate on those books.
Sexually immoral people comfortable in Joseph Prince's church
I just heard from a friend of mine here how someone we knew backslid and became apostate because her two sisters were engaging in immoral relationships - one a lesbian relationship, the other as someone's mistress - all while faithfully attending Joseph Prince's church.
Well if Joseph Prince's doctrine is correct, as long as these people "believe in Jesus" and believe they are OK, there is nothing more we can say. We should welcome them as sisters in Christ.
What is the answer to this?
RE: Sexually immoral comfort in NCC
If you'll forgive me for saying so, that's the most idiotic comment I've read in a lonnggg time. You have a solution to this problem, right? Make sure every parishioner is holy and blameless in His sight before they are allowed a seat at church. And if they must enter, make sure you seat them in the rear, out of sight. Of course God will see them. BUT WAIT! He's made them Holy and Right by their faith in Jesus. That's in the Bible, too.
Or when God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not imputing sins against man... did He leave the sins of homos and lesbians but forgive yours completely? How convenient. It must be comforting to believe God grades on a curve. Religious folks like you are the primary reason Christians are hated by the world. You're being persecuted for maligning God and His total reconciliation by grace, through faith alone, to all who BELIEVE. What's so hard about the word ALL?
Here is the proof of where JP's doctrines lead
You see in the above comment where Joseph Prince doctrine leads people.
There are to be no standards in the church in regards to morality because "God doesn't grade on a curve". In fact, righteous behavior has no bearing on the issue of whether a person is a child of God.
I suppose practicing Satanists also (who are in many churches) can also be justified by grace through faith alone, and carry on with their satanism. People like George W. Bush Sr, perhaps. After all, what is so hard about the word "ALL"? As long as they believe they are forgiven, they are, and they can carry right on, because only a nasty religious hypocritical bigot who deserves to be hated would deny it. I mean, satanists have their form of idolatry, and the greedy person has his. So what's the difference? Give me a break. Throw out your MP3 collection of messages and listen to the Word of God.
Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God.
1 Cor 6:9,10
And such WERE some of you (not ARE some of you) vs 11.
Many of us were sinning in ways like this but when we turn to God in faith we stop living like this.
But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.
Rev 21:8
Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.
Galatians 5:19-21
If you consider me a fool, as a fool bear with me.
Does not Condone Sin
I have never heard Joseph Prince condone sin. I have heard him say, "We are all for holiness." As for as his church goes, there are anywhere from 19,000 to 22,000 members. He has no control over what his members do. No pastor does. The last I heard each person was responsible for his or her own actions. People are going to do what they are going to do. They don't need an excuse.
As for as his doctrine goes, he preaches that Jesus has paid for all of our sins. With the sin debt out of the way, a person has freedom in Christ. He never says a person is free to do as
he or she pleases. You are assuming that he suggest that. You are the one suggesting it.
Yes he does
The way sin is condoned is by teaching other things that are FALSE, which leads to people not being too concerned about sin, nor expecting to live holy and in victory over it. This kind of teaching is very familiar to me, and after watching friends and churches under this kind of teaching, I can say FOR A FACT that the fruit is always the same--sin-promoting, sin-excusing, sin-loving rebels who refuse to receive correction and admonition. Everyone I have ever known who embraced these ideas could NEVER receive correction or be warned in the Fear of God. As a matter of fact. the FEAR OF THE LORD is a foreingn concept and doctrine to them. Any teaching that destroys the fear of the Lord...well, we know from whence it comes. Prince is a believer and no doubt God is using him, but AT THE SAME TIME, he is being used by the Devil as well.
Sexually Immoral
Hmmm....I just heard that a gentleman in Joseph Prince's church was sitting there wondering if he looked good in the suit he was wearing instead of giving his full mind to the Word of God. Also, a women a few seats over was still simmering inside over an ugly comment her husband had made to her three months ago. And, then one of the people on the front row, yes!, the front row, was running a percentage and payment schedule in his mind concerning a new car he wanted to purchase instead of listening to God's holy Word. DISGUSTING! I wonder how many sins it takes to separate us from God? And I wonder how bad each one of those sins has to be? Hmmm........ Maybe you could as Joseph Prince that, too. Satan is having a field day with your mind. As long as satan can keep you thinking about how good or bad you are he's winning; because he's taken your mind off of Jesus and put it onto yourself--and ole "Mr/Mis/Mrs. Self" will dissappoint you every time.....and each time Self fails, satan yells "SCORE!!!".
Keeping focus on Jesus
There is truth in what you say here. If we become law focussed and focus on our failures we will never get out of the rut of personal condemnation.
God is wanting us to learn to focus on the things of the Spirit, not the things of the flesh, including our own failures. When we focus on Jesus and the things of the Spirit, we don't sin. We need to learn to do this more and more.
We need also to audit our own thoughts a little bit and ask ourselves what we are thinking about. If we ARE thinking about something displeasing to God, we need to turn our attention BACK to the LORD. What I object to is the teaching that we can relax while setting our minds on the things of flesh. Romans 8:5 teaches believers that this is SPIRITUAL DEATH.
1 John 3: 21-24 " 21 Dear
1 John 3: 21-24
" 21 Dear friends, if our hearts do not condemn us, we have confidence before God 22 and receive from him anything we ask, because we keep his commands and do what pleases him. 23 And this is HIS COMMAND: to believe in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ, and to love one another as he commanded us. 24 The one who keeps God’s commands lives in him, and he in them. And this is how we know that he lives in us: We know it by the Spirit he gave us."
You say follow the commandments, that IS God's command. You say, those who believe in Grace are lawless because they have no reason to follow God's laws. And how can we only believe God's love and not our love for God. (Summarizing everyone's comment, not just yours)
1 John 3:9
"9 No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in them; they cannot go on sinning, because they have been born of God."
If you are born again and under his Grace, you do not have a desire to sin anyMORE than any other born-again. We are all the same and I do not try to sin because of God's love. if he only loves me because of what I can do on my own... imagine. He loves me so that now I can share his love with others. When you're in LOVE, do you WANT to HURT the one, who LOVES YOU?
1John 4-12
"7 Dear friends, let us love one another, for LOVE COMES FROM GOD.Everyone who loves has been born of God and knows God. 8 Whoever does not love does not know God, because GOD IS LOVE. 9 This is how God showed his love among us: He sent his one and only Son into the world that we might live through him. 10 This is love: NOT THAT WE LOVED GOD, BUT THAT HE LOVED US and sent his Son as an atoning sacrifice for our sins. 11 Dear friends, since God so LOVED US, we also ought to love one another. 12 No one has ever seen God; but if we love one another, God lives in us and his love is made complete in us."
Because God is love and he loves US that I am filled with love and love those around me. His grace.
1John 4
"19 We love because he first loved us. 20 Whoever claims to love God yet hates a brother or sister is a liar."
What is God's command again?
2 John 1: 4-6
" 4 It has given me great joy to find some of your children walking in the truth, just as the Father commanded us. 5 And now, dear lady, I am not writing you a new command but ONE we have had from the BEGINNING. I ask that we love one another. 6 And this is love: that we walk in obedience to his COMMANDS. As you have heard from the beginning, HIS COMMAND IS THAT YOU WALK IN LOVE"
For me, after my own research (continuous research) I've learnt that Grace is the strongest pillar. Because of God's love, we are saved. Because of God's love, we love each other. If we love each other, are we going to try to hurt each other? That's why in John it said, that you must believe in Jesus and love each other. That is the commandment because if you do that, everything follows love.. like helping each other and we are not going to hurt the people we love by disrespecting, robbing, cheating and so forth. Everything you DO, is not forgotten... 'everything he has is yours', but God's love is the key and if you can love as Jesus loves you, you are doing everything he commanded.
1 Corinthian 13: 1-13
"... if I have a faith that can move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing. 3 If I give all I possess to the poor and give over my body to hardship that I may boast,[b] but do not have love, I gain nothing......13 And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love."
The last verse regarding my statement about Grace (love) being the strongest pillar as relating to 1st John I quoted earlier.
Mark 12:28-31
"28 One of the teachers of the law came and heard them debating. Noticing that Jesus had given them a good answer, he asked him, “Of all the commandments, which is the most important?”
29 “The most important one,” answered Jesus, “is this: ‘Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one.[e] 30 Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.’[f] 31 The second is this: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’[g] There is no commandment greater than these.”
The Commandment of Love
You make a lot of good points here, but I for one am not saying "those who believe in Grace are lawless because they have no reason to follow God's laws". That is hogwash.
People who believe in the true grace of God follow after the Spirit of God, and they don't go off seeking to hurt people.
But when we are in violations of the moral law of God, it shows that our embrace of true grace is somewhat lacking.
Lawless people are those who, far from following the Spirit of God, follow their own ungodly lusts, their greed and so on. They may SAY they believe in grace. They may even BELIEVE that grace means they can do these things without condemnation or fear of reproach from God, but such a belief is in fact a FALSE belief. It is inconsistent with the teaching of the New Testament as well as the teaching of true grace.
The Commandment to Love is a MUCH BIGGER THING than just staying out of adultery, dishonesty and so on. If you really walk in love you will seek to please God and never do harm to your neighbour. But a person who feels that God has set things up now so they don't need to be concerned about cheating a neighbour, or defiling themselves with sin, proves that they are not walking in love towards God and others either.
love
sorry for my first post, I wrote it within 15 minutes during my break so I couldn't sum it up as well as I would have liked.
The point about the lawlessness was a response to everyone who kept pointing out the faults of Joseph Prince's guests. To find these people who aren't righteous inside a church, isn't NEW. Find me a church that has perfect guests and they can be the first to throw the stone at Joseph Prince's teaching. It's ridiculous to reflect a pastor's teaching with some of the members of the church, is it not?
I guess I'm not trying to defend Joseph Prince but the comments seemed unfair. And I'm not saying it was you.
I have heard a couple of Joseph Prince teachings but from what I understand, I do not believe it's as you said. Let's look at the prodigal son. The son left the father... took everything and did what he wanted. He sinned, wasn't even remorseful, he just felt sorry for himself and went back home. And what did the father do? He did not judge his son. He RAN towards him, hugged him, kissed him, put the best clothes and a festival... all before the son has even apologized for his sins. Isn't God our father, just like that? Some Christians are like the older brother, who feels unappreciated because of the radical Grace and wants to be judged by his work. And he complained about how he has worked and did his best for the father yet this lawless son is appreciated and loved. And the father said, 'everything i have is yours.'
I'm sure the older brother would even think that the YOUNGER brother is taking 'advantage' of the love of the father. But you have to realize, it's God's love for them, not your love. It's God's grace, that saves them, not yours. If we forgave people based on our grace, no one will ever be saved. Just because some people feel more JUST or LAWFUL with their walk with God, they shouldn't feel jealous towards the gracious LOVE by the father. Go into the party and enjoy. Did Jesus not dine with the sinners. The faults you find in the grace teaching, you will also find in the people who believe just like YOU. But what's consistent is, they will again and again need God's grace. Have you ever loved someone Michael? How much will you forgive your children, even though they keep sinning or do something bad? Should they fear condemnation and fear of reproach from their father? If you, an earthly father would continue to love them, imagine the heavenly father. Joseph Prince teachings has made me realized his LOVE for ME. I am not going to sin, not because I fear anything but because, I do not want to hurt the one that loves me.
I suppose one could email
I suppose one could email Joseph Prince's ministry and ask them if they believe this is acceptable behavior in their church and what "they" think about it. I have people doing bad things in my church and I suppose to the degree they are deluded, they feel comfortable. That would not be reflective of my pastor's heart or teachings, however... I would be interested to hear their response!
RE: I suppose one could email... you're kidding, right?
TL you say.. "I have people doing bad things in my church"
Your church? I thought the called out body in this world was His. His Church to sanctify and grow as He wills. Why not let God handle it and save your email. After all, He's given you a ministry. That of reconcilation... you know, spreading the Good News.
We serve a happy God. Smiles all around, everybody... specially you religious children.
Why is sin comfortable in a Church?
If a little leaven leaven's the whole lump, I would seriously worry about a Church and its leadership that doesn't have enough anointing to purify the evil leaven out of its Church. Surely the same tools that were available to purify the Corinthian Church are available to us. You ask what tools? Spirit inspired preaching that causes the guilty to cry out, "What shall we do?" and the resounding answer, "repent of that wickedness or we will hand you over to Satan so you can suffer in the flesh till you repent and escape damnation!" and come back to God.
Not a comfortable doctrine that's for sure, but what do you want? A place where hypocrisy can contaminate the whole Church because the pastor doesn't have the courage to preach the truth about sin. Or a sense of reverence for purity as is shown in chapter five of Acts.
Act 20:28 Therefore take heed to yourselves, and to all the flock in which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to feed the church of God which He has purchased with His own blood.
Act 20:29 For I know this, that after my departure grievous wolves shall enter in among you, not sparing the flock.
Act 20:30 Also men shall arise from your own selves, speaking perverse things in order to draw disciples away after them.
You might review your responsibilities in these verses.
Please Pray for me!
I had heard of Joseph Prince also and have seen his books at my local bookstore. Recently, I watched two episodes of his show and afterward, knew something was not right. He rarely picked up the Bible and read directly from it -only gave out short pieces of scripture to use in the message he was trying to convey.
The ideas he was presenting and overall reasoning he used seemed harmless, but something just did not sit right with me.
I think spiritually or intuitively I felt something was very wrong, but I went on his (JP's) website and ordered a CD and book of his for a gift 5 dollars. Even then, I became suspicious as the donation choices available under the drop-down menu reached $1 - 50,000 Dollars! What normal person would or could even donate 50 thousand of anything? I don't know. I dismissed this evidence as some automated "decision" created by the computer program they were using for the website or in the way it was formatted/displayed on the page. I was thinking "maybe these numbers were just automatically listed or something."
Also the Title of the CD was a little "off" to me: Meditate—Release The Power Of God’s Word. I have only recently been spiritually changed and born again by the spirit (6 months ago last year) and I have experienced such a change of heart and conviction by The Spirit that I now have a thirst for righteousness for the first time in my life.
I still struggle with my temptations, but it seems I have been deceived by Satan in my weakness and decided to purchase this CD even though I ignored what The Spirit may have been telling me. In any case, all I wanted was to grow more in The Word and be able to strengthen myself and defend myself.
If you have read this far, thanks for hearing me out and I ask that you take the time to pray for me for my impulsive financial decisions, that I may be guided more strongly by the spirit of God, and that I may be able to grow more in The Word for the whole truth of the gospel. I pray that no one would have to go through what I have experienced, even though it may seem like a small financial set back to some, I take it as a big wake-up call and a full message to me spiritually.
We really are living in The Last Days!
RE: Please Pray for me!
GulfShark: You're young (6 months?) in the Lord. Let me tell you what someone told me over 30 years ago. We were in prayer, in a circle, and I was feeling condemned. Can't remember off hand what it was. Maybe my hand? I was 26 and single LOL So back to the story... this motorcylcle dude, a former Hell's Angel, grabs me by the arm. He was mildly annoyed that I wouldn't openly pray for something or other cause I felt self-conscience. That's what condemnation will do to you, make you feel self-conscience more than Christ conscience. So he says, "Dude (that'd be me), IT"S NOT YOUR RIGHTEOUSNESS! It was like a light going off. A major blockage was released. I prayed... loudly and strongly... cause I knew God heard me not based on my behavior but on His Son's life and faith, PERFECT in EVERY way.
Do likewise.
Grace and peace to you in abundance each day forth, brother.
To Gulfshark from Sunrise
I checked out the donate site you went to. It is as you say. It has donation options ranging from $1.00 to $50,000. That did not surprise me. There are people who can afford to give $50,000 and not bat an eye, but I am not one of them. You have to understand that he runs a TV ministry, and it can't be run on peanuts. As I see it, you can pick whatever size donation that you want to. No one is asking you to send $50.000.
Also, I will say this about Joseph Prince. He DOES NOT encourage people to send their tithe money to his church. He says you should give it to the local church that you attend. That says something about his character.
And he actually Looks EVIL!
What more do we need?
Maybe another article.
http://sgforums.com/forums/12/topics/410990
Re: Looking Evil
Hi Globaltruthseeker
It is difficult to fathom, why you would wait for 1yr and 8 weeks to make your first post, then when you finally decide to.
You have managed to discredit your chosen site name with one post.
For lookinforacity from Sunrise.
Are you sure you are addressing the right person? I don't want someone else to take the blame for something I have said.
I only saw this post today. I did not feel like it was right to criticize Joseph Prince's appearance. Now this person has the right to say what he or she wants to, but so do I. If this had been said about you then I would have defended you.
But don't worry I have said about all I am going to say on this site about Joseph Prince and salvation, unless someone specifically request that I continue. That said have a nice night.