Will there be a Secret Rapture of the Church

"Then the seventh angel sounded [the trumpet]: And there were loud voices in heaven, saying, "The kingdoms of this world have become the kingdoms of our Lord and of His Christ, and He shall reign forever and ever!"
(Revelations 11:15)

"Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed - in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the LAST trumpet . For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
(1 Corinthians 15:51, 52).

"For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them to meet the Lord in the air."
(1 Thessalonians 4:16,17).

"And immediately AFTER the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened ... and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And He will send His angels with a great sound of a TRUMPET, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to another.
(Matthew 24:29-31) (Italics mine).

According to many popular Bible interpreters and end-time prophecy buffs today, including some leading men of God, Jesus could come back at any moment in and secretly whisk true believers away. Those who are not ready will be left to face the rise of the Antichrist and the eventual outpouring of the wrath of God on the earth. According to most of the proponents of this view, those left behind will effectively get a second chance at salvation, because they will realise that all these end-time prophecy teachers were right after all, so now they need to believe in Jesus and get serious with God, even though they also know they are going to lose their heads under the cruel Antichrist regime.

The upshot of all this seems to be, "You should live a holy life now so you don't have to go through the Great Tribulation. But even if you don't, all is not lost, you'll get another chance after the Rapture." BUT, what if judgment comes and there is no second chance? Friends, when people die in their sins and go to hell, there is no second chance. Why should the Second Coming be any different?

One film I viewed a while back had this old gentleman with one of these charts of "God's end time prophetical calendar" after the secret rapture had taken place, who was ticking off the events as the judgments straight out of the book of revelation came down on the earth. Scary stuff.

Multiplied millions of dollars have been spent promoting this view through books, films and tapes. There's good money to be made today as a end-time bible-prophecy buff, if you can give the impression that you really know what you are talking about. But is this view correct? Is it true? Is it Scriptural? And if it is not, could there be harmful consequences for people?

What if you believe with all your heart that God has promised that you yourself will never be hauled up before antichrist authorities, that there will be a secret rapture before the AntiChrist appears? For one thing, you are a candidate for being deceived by the AntiChrist when he does come, and the Scripture indicates he will arise out of the temple of God (2 Thessalonians 2:4) [the church is the temple of God]. How could this spiritual man be the AntiChrist, if God has promised to rapture you first? Millions will either be deceived, or go on to lose their trust in God because of the persecutions they thought God had promised them they would never face. America today is ripe for such deception. If you give the people what they want to hear, it is very good for your offerings.

I am not writing as one who knows it all, but at least I am willing to admit the fact. Someone may be able to overcome all my Scriptural objections and cause me to see the true light. However, the real truth on what is in store in the last of the last days may be a little more uncomfortable than what we have been led to believe by the various pop prophecy books and films. And if that is true, its better to know now, rather than to backslide later.

I don't dispute that some people have been saved and come to Jesus out of a real conviction that these things are going to happen exactly as pop prophecy preachers have been saying. And if the end justifies the means, I guess there is a strong case for keeping silent on the subject. But the end does not justify the means, and error carries within it seeds of destruction which will eventually bear their devastating fruit.

We don't need the doctrine of the Secret Rapture to get Christians or anyone else to repent.. If it is false after all, there are some yet to be revealed major negative consequences that could easily come to pass and hurt the Body of Christ. So I think its worth speaking up, not out of a desire for controversy and endless cavilling with those who already think they know, but so that we as believers in Jesus can truly be ready for some of the tribulation which has been the normal lot of serious Christians for the last 2 millenia.

There Will Be a Rapture of the Saints

The word "rapture" does not occur in the Bible. But the Bible clearly indicates in 1 Thessalonians 4:16,17 that the Lord Jesus Christ is coming back for His church. We who are alive when He comes will be caught up to meet Him. Its says nothing about us going back up to Heaven for a few years after this meeting. It says nothing about a quiet event which will leave the people of the world wondering, "Where did the Christians go?" No, it will be with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and most importantly, with the trumpet of God. And at the sounding of the last trumpet, it will be the end of the game for the antichrist and those who have followed him.

When will the Rapture Take Place?

God has given us enough clues in the Scripture to put to rest the foolish speculations of secret raptures. If only we will read them and take the word as it is written, there is little room for doubt on the subject. The key to it all is the repeated emphasis on angels but especially the TRUMPET of God. If you believe the Scripture is inerrant, and God knows what He is putting in there, you ought to be willing to really consider why this trumpet blast is mentioned in so many portions of the Scripture that have to do with the Second Coming of the Lord.

It won't hurt to repeat the Scripture quotations I included at the beginning of this article.

"Then the seventh angel sounded [the trumpet]: And there were loud voices in heaven, saying, "The kingdoms of this world have become the kingdoms of our Lord and of His Christ, and He shall reign forever and ever!"
(Revelations 11:15)

"Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed - in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the LAST trumpet . For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
(1 Corinthians 15:51, 52).

"For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them to meet the Lord in the air."
(1 Thessalonians 4:16,17).

"And immediately AFTER the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened ... and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And He will send His angels with a great sound of a TRUMPET, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to another.
(Matthew 24:29-31) (Italics mine).

These Scriptures, when taken together, make the following clear.

1. The resurrection of the righteous - those who have been effectually restored to God though the work of Jesus on the cross - this resurrection will take place at the sounding of the last trumpet (1 Corinthians 15:52). It should be pretty obvious, but there will be no other prophetic trumpet blasts after the last one. If there were, none of the preceding blasts could be properly called the "last" one.

2. It is not reasonable to suppose that the trumpet blast and resurrection event in 1 Corinthians 15:52 is somehow different to the blast in 1 Thessalonians 4:16,17. No, there are too many parallels. The Scripture talks about the first resurrection being the resurrection of the righteous. It is the resurrection of those who did not bow to the Antichrist system (no matter what age they lived in). "But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection." (Revelation 20:5). There is no general resurrection of righteous believers before this one. If there was, they should call it the "second" resurrection or perhaps the third or fourth.

My conclusion is, 1 Thessalonians 4:16,17 and 1 Corinthians 15:52 occur at the same time, the time of the blasting of the last trumpet.

3. But there is a trumpet of God being blasted at the Second Coming of Christ (see Matthew 24:31). This trumpet blast cannot be after the "last trumpet" which we have proven was blown at the "rapture". No, the Second Coming takes place at the time of the Rapture. So there is no "Third Coming". This Coming of the Lord with the trumpet blast and the angels gathering ELECT all takes place "after the [great] tribulation of those days" (Matthew 24:29). The elect were not raptured seven years before the last trumpet blows. No, because the Bible clearly teaches that the first resurrection of the righteous happens at the Second Coming of the Lord.

If anyone can wiggle out of this logic and thorough analysis of the written Word of God, they have yet to confront me with it. Some Bible teachers say, "Don't think like this. People get the wrong doctine when they start to think about that trumpet." But why should we throw out part of the Scriptures to please some popular Bible teacher who is telling the people what they want to hear? So often they are telling something like this: "Come to Jesus and you'll be rich like me. There will be no end-time suffering for those who do what God wants, which is to sow generously to my ministry. No, God wants you to be rolling in cash and if you please God you will never suffer tribulation. I'm going up before any of this trouble comes. Have faith like I do!" Sounds pretty good as long as you don't check it out first.

The fact is that "we must through many tribulations enter the Kingdom of God". (Acts 13:34). "All who desire to live godly in Christ Jesus will suffer persecution" (2 Timothy 3:12). Yes, if we are faithful to God and persist in prayer we may be spared a lot of the trials we would otherwise have. But anyone who thinks they are going to get through without hardship, without perseverence, patience and endurance is just having themselves on.

There are major persecutions being planned for those who are active in evangelism. Always have been somewhere in the world. Believers are being martyred for their faith by the hundreds on a daily basis. The true rapture doctrine assures us that Jesus is coming again for us, and whether we live or die, we will have eternity to enjoy with Him forever. Those who die in Christ will not miss out on the main event. We can be comforted with these words.

The false secret rapture doctrine could sound like an exhortation to godliness, but really, it is a false teaching which carries the potential for doing a lot of damage in the dangerous tmes ahead.

There is something a lot worse than facing the wrath of the Antichrist. And that is, facing the wrath of Almighty God. The worst men can do is nothing compared to the horrors of hell. The majority of people who go to hell will be really surprised they ended up there. They thought they had plenty of time to party on, and spit in the face of Almighty God and His laws, putting shame on the name of Jesus. Perhaps some of them thought they would wait and see until after the rapture. No friends, God is not mocked. All of us, if we are truly wise, will keep plenty of oil in our lamps and seek to shine for Jesus now, whether the world likes it or not.

Michael Fackerell

Comments

Quote from Michael "the

Quote from Michael

    "the foolish speculations of secret raptures"

Just because someone believe in the secret rapture doesn't make him or her foolish, nor does it makes his or her honest biblical analysis a mere "speculation"

I think we should give Christians with a different position than us a fair hearing before hurling accusations and ridicule upon them. It's more Christian that way.

and quote

    " But why should we throw out part of the Scriptures to please some popular Bible teacher who is telling the people what they want to hear? So often they are telling something like this: "Come to Jesus and you'll be rich like me. There will be no end-time suffering for those who do what God wants, which is to sow generously to my ministry. No, God wants you to be rolling in cash and if you please God you will never suffer tribulation. I'm going up before any of this trouble comes. Have faith like I do!" Sounds pretty good as long as you don't check it out first."

More accusations in the last quote, is there something wrong for being a popular Bible teacher? Just because you disagree with someone, that makes that person gullible and intellectually dishonest as to believing what he or she wants to hear?

Can you give me names of any TV evangelists who ever says so plainly that if you give them cash you will be prosperous and please God? I don't think even false prophets would be so foolish as to say that so plainly on TV.

I agree with jesseedavis and dougw that both pre-trib and post-trib have some worthy arguments to consider.

After many years of reflection, I think I was able to eliminate the chaff from the wheat and find out what God has really said in the scripture about the "secret Rapture". See http://bible-verses-insights.com/2010/01/what-is-the-rapture/

I think the reasons why there are so many disinformation about the Rapture are because of: pride, jealousy, denominational-ism, heroism, man-pleasing, and self-protect-ism.

Satan would be able to use people who had these struggles, or demons, to promote his own propaganda and disinformation about the Rapture. His interest is of course getting more people into hell.

Secret rapture

I contend that there are such things as "foolish speculations about the secret rapture". But that is not the same thing as saying that believing in the secret rapture makes one foolish.

In earlier years I have heard so much talk about this or that world event indicating that the rapture could happen in the year 19xx, and things like this. This is an example of what I refer to as "foolish speculations about the secret rapture". They are foolish not only because they are proven wrong again and again, but also, because a lot of effort seems to have gone into the creation of these theories. This effort would have been better spent on teaching something SOLID, preaching Christ, or any number of things really. All it does it weaken Christians as they conclude that it is hardly worth the effort to do anything here on earth that requires even a medium term view.

That leads to mediocrity and lots of time wasting.

I take note that you have not attempted to refute my position based on the Bible, you have merely taken issue with the tone of my expression.

"More accusations in the last quote, is there something wrong for being a popular Bible teacher? Just because you disagree with someone, that makes that person gullible and intellectually dishonest as to believing what he or she wants to hear?

Can you give me names of any TV evangelists who ever says so plainly that if you give them cash you will be prosperous and please God? I don't think even false prophets would be so foolish as to say that so plainly on TV. "

The fact is that many "popular Bible teachers" disagree over major issues, and minor ones too. Being popular carries with it no guarantee of being truthful. And so I am saying we should not be afraid to disagree with people just because they are popular.

And no, disagreeing with me does not make a person gullible or intellectually dishonest. Did I say or suggest that it did?

As for false preachers and teachers on TV, they have a little more polish than to say that giving them money will make you rich, but they say it indirectly, they want to tie the idea of "having faith" to the idea of "planting money in their ministry". Since it is faith that pleases God, the gullible, who hang on the words of such preachers, will think they are pleasing God when they give to such "fleece the flock" ministries.

Fair. I do disagree with your

Fair.

I do disagree with your position about Rapture, and I put a link there to my post on Rapture.

My original concerns to your post on the Rapture was that you sounded bitter. I was concerned that you may took on a wrong theology position about the Rapture because of bitterness, not fair interpretation of the scripture.

That's why I have taken issue with the tone of your expression.

peace. I am ok with you again now.

secret rapture

Hi, I agree there is no secret rapture, I used to believe in it, as when I was saved I came to the Lord without any prior knowledge of Him or the scriptures, as I was not raised up with any knowledge of the Lord or religions of any kind for the matter, which is a good thing. Anyway I believe I was saved in the last days where Jesus warned there would be many decptions lying signs and wonders, Paul warned day and night of the wolves that he knew would come into Gods flock and deceive many, satan can appear as an angel of ligth, so can his servants. We are also warned that the day of the Lord would not come, until there was first a falling away, and the Son of Perdition was revealed. The Lord said when He came the first time, that they would not accept Him, when He came in His Fathers name, but He warned that one would come in his own name, and they would accept him, which is the antichrist. With the antichrist, his coming is marked by lying signs and wonders that could deceive the very elect if that was possible. People forget that there are many men preaching in churches that are wolves in sheep clothing, and satan, has hidden the warnings of the Lord Jesus Christ, behind the cleverly invented slogan of God is doing a new thing. We are encouraged in Gods word not to believe every spirit but to test them, and this goes with scriptures too, as satan is very clever at twisting scriptures out of context, so each time I have been deceived the Lord, has taken me back to the only book that exposes each lie and that is His word, and all through His word He tells us that the last days would be marked with many being deceived by false prophets, teachers, lying signs and wonders, and He added that those whome do not love the truth will believe the lies. The false doctrines are not neutral, behind them are demons, and we are accountable not to believe every christian, for many wear labels also, we are called to search the scriptures for ouseleves, to be certain. Plus, also, when I hear christians saying oh but this person seems sincere, and we have one Spirit, etc... that is true, but, a wolf and false prophet can appear sincere, what counts is what Gods word says on any matter, and with the comforter the Holy Spirit He will lead those who test the spirits and doctrines to Gods word and reveal the truth to them. The great falling away is here now, as people everywhere are going to teachers to have their itching ears tickled with false doctrines just as the Lord warned. I have come to the conclusion it is very serious to be certain, not to put our trust in men. Plus, Jesus warns us again, and again, to watch, that he uses the description of coming as a theif to the world, not to His children, He warns us to watch, to endure to be obedient until His coming, and the those that are alive at His coming do not precede those that have died, plus, He says, He comes with His angels, to gather His elect from the four corners of the earth and heavens, we are with Him in the air, as the angels said, to the Lords diciples, when the Lord rose up into the air, why do you look up, this same Jesus that you saw, going up into the clouds will return in like manner, and He said also, He comes twice not three times, He came the first time to bear sin, the second time, to bring salvation to those whom are waiting for Him. He is also bringing a crown to those whom have loved His appearing. It is great to see christians whom have not been deceived by the lie of the secret rapture, that still go to Gods word, as their final authority. God bless

secret rapture

hi Michael, i find this divide in christians about the rapture confusing because i taught as christians with the HOLY SPIRIT guiding us, we are supposed to be one mind and one body in the LORD JESUS CHRIST. i have heard pastors preaching and they seem, from what i can tell to be speaking sincerly from their hearts, preaching about a pre-trib rapture, and i find it hard to believe they are deluded. why is it looked upon as a secret rapture, if there is pre-trib rapture and people start vanishing all over the world, how does one think that will be a secret rapture? also 1.thessalonians 4:16 for the LORD HIMSELF will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel and with trumpet of GOD. and the dead in CHRIST will rise first.

it says the LORD will descend from heaven, but it doesn't say HE will descend from heaven to the earth, does that make it a second coming?

1.thessalonians 5:9 for GOD did not appoint us to wrath, but to obtain salvation through our LORD JESUS CHRIST, does this piece of scripture not make a point for pre-trib rapture?

i myself am unsure of when the rapture will take place, i hear great cases for both ,pre-trib/post-trib.

also is there not a difference between tribulations and the great tribulation?

Re; secret rapture

I also have some of the same questions. Just about the only reason I have to disbelieve in pre-trib rapture is the fact that mainstream theology and Christianity accepts it. That scares me, because I have already found most of mainstream to be unBiblical one way or another. Most Christians just can't tie Scripture together too well and thus get weird conclusions, its weird. However, I do agree, both sides have GREAT arguments for each. Even mid-trib does, though that I know from what I have read in the Bible to be false.

Therefore, this is what I hold to: The rapture will come, not all will die, but all will be changed, and it will all be within a twinkling of an eye. It will happen and this is our hope and our comfort. Regardless of pre/mid/post-trib rapture, we will all face persecution. Jesus promised us this, and like every other promise, I hold Him to it and look forward to it. As for exactly when it will happen, I do not care, just like I do not care when Jesus will come back, just as long as He does. Please don't take this last statement wrong, I do desire His return and it is a constant hope, but I won't spend my time wondering if it will be in the next week or not. I don't care, I'm going to do what I am told until it does whether I must die first or not.

Bear this in mind, JESUS IS ALIVE AND OUR LIFE IS IN AND THROUGH HIM. This fact will never change or pass away. Let us honor and glorify Him by having a living faith and a living life and a living relationship with Him in and out of His Word and always move from faith to faith and glory to glory. In this, we honor Him and Him alone.

Re: secret rapture

You just stated that both sides have great arguments on their sides. That's apodictic, in my way of thinking. And I would add that NOT ONLY do they both have great arguments to support their position, but they can both quote scriptures to support their position till the proverbial cows come home!

Now of this I am clear: the Bible does not lie, and it does not contradict itself. At times when we think it may be contradicting itself, the glitch is in our flawed, fallible, infinite, human understanding, and not in the Word itself. "Let God be true and everyman a liar."

Agreed?

Amen.

Now if the Bible does not contradict itself, but men hold contradicting views on certain subjects, the thing I need to ask is this. Did God stutter? Did he mumble as a man would?

Nay, but every story in the Bible that I have read which reveals God's unchanging character indicates that when He speaks he does NOT mince words!! His word is clear and very explicit when ever He speaks. Sometimes it rolls as THUNDER!!! As we read the stories of God at work in the lives of men, and we see the ways and methods with which he deals with man, or has dealt with him throughout the ages, (The old testament is splendid for this!) we see that God was never one to play games! When He spoke that a certain thing would come to pass, brother you had better duck, because it's a' comin'! You can bank on it!

So back to the rapture. Did God mince words on this subject? No, seriously! Back up and think about it! That would be out of character for Him! I think from HIS point of view, as He looks down on the earth, He would say to us "I gave the truth on this subject very explicitly in my Word!!" "Why are you confused? I am not the author of confusion!"

So then the million dollar question: If God does not mince words, if He is clear and explicit in his word, NEVER EQUIVOCATING, then why oh WHY my brothers and sisters is there so much division and conflict of views among the body of Christ??????

Both sides swear to have the ultimate, apodictic truth, but logic dictates that two conflicting views can not be right!

In short, no matter how vehement the arguments, now matter how passionately we espouse them, somebody's got to be right, and someone's got to be wrong!

Flip a coin, anyone?

The quintessence of the matter is this: Why is there so much conflict and misunderstanding on that which God has spoken with crystal clarity? (as He always does.)

My main concern is how horrible this looks to those in the world who may be on the brink of coming to the Lord and repenting and being born again, but they may be looking in on this CIRCUS and thinking "I don't want anything to do with that! These people are nuts!!"

What else WOULD they think if they observe that we as Christians can't even reach any concord on our basic tenets of our faith?

If you ask me, it's a sad and pitiful state of affairs. Simply deplorable.

But I like your distilled obversations/ conclusions, Jesse! That is an excellent synthesis! Best I've heard, so far!

You've at least found the basic elements that we can indeed all agree on.

Re re: secret rapture

Yes, I know. It is very sad that we all disagree on virtually everything and can't walk together because of it. Virtually everywhere from murder, homosexuality, and things like polygamy to gifts of the Spirit, praying without ceasing, giving thanks for everything and even whether Jesus was ____, you fill in the blank, all are somehow up for debate within the Body of Christ. It is ridiculous! I am positive that God looks down at this and weeps harder than He has ever done. No two of us can walk together in agreement, and if so then not for long. It is horrible! This great falling away is hard to look at. I feel many times that I really don't want anything to do with any of the churches today. What is really scary is that every one of us are either so confident or so stubborn that we are determined to hold to our doctrine to the grave, even if it means being wrong and missing out on everything.

The biggest thing that sorrows me, as you said, is that the world denies the existence of Christ and of a god period just by looking at the Church. Jesus prayed saying, "That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me." (my emphasis) The same has become true of the opposite. If Jesus does not come back soon I'm afraid He may not have too many sticking with Him except for a handful on top of those that have already endured to the end. At least, that is, not in America.

By the way, please refer to this post...

http://www.christian-faith.com/forjesus/baptist-pastor-tased-and-beaten-by-police-in-arizona-amerika-12-stitches-in-the-head#comment-4466

If we believe in pre-trib, because we want out before the tribulation then we are wrong, whether the Bible supports pre-trib or not.

I agree, pre-trib is a deception

I have written about this myself on my blog. I believe that pre-trib is a deception of satan. I go into a few details of why it is IMPOSSIBLE on my blog.

I read where another lady said that if you read your bible as much as you should, you cannot be deceived into believing in a SECRET rapture. There is nothing secret about it in scriptures. Yashua EXPLICITLY spoke against it, and so did Paul the apostle.

Glad to see that a *few* are fighting for truth.

Hello Michael, I have

Hello Michael, I have questions on what is and when(timing) of Marriage supper of lamb. I know we learn from one another through the bible.Hope you CF people will contribute to this
God bless you
Ev. Steve

Jesus is Love
Jesus is God
By his stripes we were healed

Rapture + Secret Rapture

Why do we spend so much time studying,questioning such things?!
We should be in a place with God, and our walk with him that "WE" wont be left behind.
We should be able to decern the seasons, as Jesus said.
I have been saved since 1968, and have heard everyone from Henery Kissenger, to Pope John Paul as being the Anti Christ. I was taught way back then , that we (the generation of that time, were to be the generation to see the return of Christ). Now the Generation of this time are supposed to be the generation that will witness his return. The point being , That no one knows the time of his return, and wont until he does return, SOOOO BE READY!
All of this Theology came about because of the teaching on the establishing of Israel as a Nation in 1948. Where has this teaching come from? Who was the author of it? How much of what YOU personally believe, has its roots in the Theology of the Fig Tree? If you take 1948 out of the equation how much of what you beleive will still stand?
I believe that the whole teaching of the Fig Tree, and 1948 are both false teachings.
(Right out of the PIT)

Rapture theology and Zionism.

There are many links between what we are taught by many pastors within the evangelical movement and the political goals of zionism.

As stated in Michaels article, there potentially lethal implications for those who are misled into believing this unsafe doctrine.

I asked my pastor about end time events many years ago and his reply to me was "Dont worry about it, just concentrate on following Jesus".

I believe that this is a wise comment.

No-one knows when the "Day of the Lord" will be but we should always be ready with our lamps filled with oil.

God bless,

Pete

The Indentity of He Who Now Letteth/That Wicked

In a pre-tribulation model, "...he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way...", is usually identified to be the Church, or the Holy Spirit's influence through the Church. But who is he, and what does it mean that he shall be "taken out of the way" - in a post-tribulation model?

And where it says, "...then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming," does this imply that "that Wicked" is an individual who shall still be alive physically at the time of Christ's coming? If so, that would seem to preclude any first-century identity for "that Wicked" (such as Nero).

How to Test Whether Your Doctrine is Gospel or an 'Americanism'

I often say that one way in which we can test our doctrine - to know whether it is true Gospel, or an Americanism - is to put it through the "persecuted Church test". That is, to ask ourselves, "What would believers in a persecuted country think of this doctrine?"

For example: prosperity. Any statement about prosperity, probably isn't the Gospel - unless it can apply equally to both a tortured, imprisoned Pastor on death-row in China, and to one of your fellow-televangelists in the United States. Or at least, such a statement may need some qualification (especially if it's being broadcast around the world to audiences who are facing varying degrees of persecution).

And vice versa. Perhaps Pastors in the persecuted house-church movement in China could similarly guard against any extremes in their thinking, through testing how any of their statements might apply in a more peaceful, prosperous environment.

The Church can thrive during persecution and prosperity alike. "I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me". Extremes in doctrine can sometimes occur in persecuted countries, but unfortunately, we in developed countries are not immune from the opposite extreme, the tendency to dilute the Gospel's message.

It was good to read a post that brought Gospel doctrine and values into focus again.

Secret rapture?

You are one of the few that have hit the nail on the head! People need to stop fearing "the left behind" syndrome. For those that would disagree, there can only be ONE last trump. Many try to say there is a Levitical trump, and endeavor to make the Bible fit their traditional dispensational beliefs, but they are not scriptural. The introduction of this heresy was through the Scofield Bible in footnotes. Some of his staff resigned rather than go along with Scofields desires. In visiting countries outside North America, many do not have this belief. Something else that goes along with that last trump is the ending of time. This should be considered to establish further estachological views in regards to other things also introduced during the reformation by renagade Jusuits. I don't wish to be secific here, as it is another subject that I will comment on in the appropriate area.

Good elucidation Michael! I

Good elucidation Michael! I will check the scriptures to determine TRUE timing. Your explanations are biblical based and that is good because whatever Scripture says is true.
Michael sounds to me an Apostle!
Anyway I'm believing nothing on timing of rapture so as to examine these two concepts independently
God bless you!

Jesus is Love
Jesus is God
By his stripes we were healed

Secret Rapture?

Michael,
You and I are pretty much on the same page as to the rapture of the Church. As a new believer, some 34 years ago, I was taught that the dispensational veiw was what the Bible taught. When I did my own study on it and really looked at what the Bible said, rather than what Hal Lindsey said, I could not find any passage that remotely taught a secret rapture before the great tribulation. I have asked many people over the years to show me just one passage that taught this, no one has yet. I have been told, many times, that they just believe it because they hope that is what will happen. I don't want to write war and peace, but I find it sad that many hang on to this view when it is clearly not scriptural.

in His love,
Darryl

Yes but

I agree that there will not be a "secret rapture", but I have to disagree about the trumpets. Paul was writting twenty to fourty years prior to John's vision in Revalations. To equate the two trumpets as the same seems a bit of a stretch. Check out my blog entry "The Timing of the Rapture" for more on my take.

will there be a secret rapture of the church

hi , Michael , thank you for this article , which is truly based on the Word of God . many of our brothers and sisters are in for a rude awakening if they live to see the antichrist rule . the fact that many are willing to believe that somehow they will escape through "righteous living" tells us that something is rotten in today's "churchianity" . first of all , truly righteous people , who know who enabled them to gain this righteousness , consider themselves honored by suffering for Christ's sake .
this attitude clearly indicates , on the other hand , how selfish most us have become : the Lord Jesus Himself said that the greatest commandment was to love our God with all our might and heart ; but i am afraid many are "lovers of themselves" instead , taking all steps they deem necessary to avoid suffering and pain and still manage to get the supreme "candy" : go to heaven and have fun , flying around with the angels! let us remember the words of the Lord Himself :"in this world , you will have tribulation , but take heart , for I have overcome the world " . this is what the Lord expects of us , to stand on His Word and to rely on His strength to have His commandments come to life in our daily lives , no matter what situation we may find ourselves in .

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