Churches that Cast Out Demons

Recently I asked on my facebook status, "When was the last time you saw a demon come out in a local church?" Answers came back: "Never", "1992", "23 years ago", "last year" and so on. Someone said that demons feel quite at home in the modern church today – no need to come out!

A lot of time church people (and leaders) carry on as if: 

"There are no demons in Australia [substitute your favourite sophisticated town, city or country]! You might find one in Africa though."

"Since Jesus died on the cross, the devil was defeated, so we don't need to cast them out any more".

Some feel there is no point casting demons out of people in the world, since they will just come back in – and there is no need to cast them out of someone who has received Christ, since in Hezekiah 3:16 it clearly states that a demon and the Holy Spirit cannot live in the same body at the same time.

Tom Woythal posted on my facebook status as a comment: " 'We have been taught by devils not to fight devils.' That just about sums it up."

Well, I can't be satisfied with the status quo here.

I can't be satisfied when I observed my own wife who is a very sincere Christian TORMENTED DAY AND NIGHT by thoughts and pains. Yet when the demons were cast out – along with a lot of vomit, she was able to rejoice in the Spirit and the constant harrassment ceased! These demons mostly got in through moments of weakness associated with extremely traumatic events which happened in her childhood years. My wife is a genuine overcomer. Most people who grew up with a single alcoholic father in a city like Bucharest would not have done as well as her.

I have to be honest with everyone and say that I myself have needed deliverance on many occasions. In 1988 for most of the year I was practicing deliverance on myself. Demons that were binding my mind in various ways were coming out – mostly with yawns, tears and sometimes with coughs.

I have learned that almost everyone needs deliverance. Maybe if you are a third generation pentecostal preacher you may not have that many iniquities to deal with, but not many people are like that out of the total population.

I know this whole area is controversial, but I am willing to stick my neck out here. I KNOW that many many Christians are in need of help, and cannot find it in their local churches.

I pray that God will raise up churches and MORE online fellowships which are effective in dealing with this kind of thing. Because it is SORELY needed.

For theological justification of some of my statements, please read the Spiritual Warfare section of my site.

If you agree with what I am saying here, I urge you to rise up in the Spirit and band together with people who are serious about putting into practice the ministry of Jesus.

Because Jesus said, "These signs will follow those who believe. In my name they will cast out demons." (Mark 16:17)

 

What do YOU think?

comments

About Michael Fackerell

The Christian faith is about Jesus. He came to save the lost. About Jesus Christ, Bible teaching, Testimonies, Salvation, Prayer, Faith, Networking.

Comments

  1. lookinforacity says:

    Whenever arguments on a subject have been made, what is usually seen by the end of them is, it gets personal.

    It is of the utmost importance, to use scripture whenever possible, especially in order to back up, or validate ones argument. Without the use of scripture as the ultimate authority, it then becomes nothing more than a voicing of opinion.

    This type of thing comes about because both parties involved, state as their evidence of truth, “PERSONAL EXPERIANCE” having to do with the matter at hand.

    But, as great as personal experience may be when witnessing, or testifying as to the Lords Greatness, this type of evidence to make a point, isn’t worth a hill of beans, this type of argument, is nothing more than your word against their word.

    At the end of the day, it isn’t a matter of, who is right, it is the matter of, “The Word of God is always right, is always Truth” regardless of what we may think of it or whether or not we agree with it.
    Let scripture speak for itself, truth is truth, and cannot be gainsay-ed against.
    The Word of God is the one true constant in the universe.

    There isn’t any one place, or teaching on The Trinity, but there are enough scriptures which, at different times, make overlapping statements, which, when taken as a whole we then see the Trinity as Truth.

    There are other subjects which are discussed, but not only is there a lack of any scripture stating the validity of the belief held, there isn’t even a compilation of scripture which would even allude to such a belief, such as the example above.

    Therefore to make it very simple I ask only “TWO” questions.

    1) Where is the scripture, which gives the account, of a known Christian Believer being Delivered of a Demon Possession?

    The account in Mark 5:1-20 and in Luke 8:26-39 of the Gadarene Demoniac, it is clear from the text, he was not a believer before his Deliverance, but wanted to follow Jesus after it.

    2) Where is the teaching given, even overlapping teaching, to the church, such as with the Trinity, for the purpose of ministering deliverance to Christian Believers?

    We see in Cor. 12,13,14 the listing of the Gifts of the Holy Spirit, and the setting of the Ministry’s into the Church, by the Holy Spirit, which were for the Church, but the Ministry which is missing, is “The Deliverance Ministry”, it says these Ministry’s are for the Perfecting of the Saints, if this is such an important Ministry within the Body of Christ, (The Church), then why did God neglect instituting it as He did with the others.

    From other scriptures, it becomes evident, Deliverance is to be a part of the believers life, but outward from the Believer, pointed towards the Non-Believer, but still, Deliverance is not mentioned as a Ministry, and in particular, there is no mention of Deliverance towards a Christian, therefore we cannot build the consensus of understanding which states a Christian can be Possessed by a Demon.

    Mat.7:22
    Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have (CAST OUTDEVILS)? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

    Mar. 9:38
    And John answered him, saying, Master, we saw one (CASTING OUT DEVILS) in thy name, and he followeth not us: and we forbad him, because he followeth not us.

    Luk. 9:49
    And John answered and said, Master, we saw one (CASTING OUT DEVILS) in thy name; and we forbad him, because he followeth not with us.

    Mar. 16:17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name (SHALL THEY CAST OUT DEVILS); they shall speak with new tongues;

    Be Blessed
    JIM

    • Timothy Luke says:

      I think a part of this discussion that is missing is that we read about us being the temple of the Holy Spirit and the mind of some go to "a devil cannot enter into a temple filled with the Holy Spirit…. However, the temple has the Holy of Holies as the residence of the Holy Spirit, where only the High Priest could enter in, and it also has the inner court and outer court.

      We as the temple, are called to purify ourselves and to put off works of the flesh, which are unclean. These things testifying that we are not a finished product, though the work on the cross is completed on God's end. As part of the purifying work, we will come across giants in our land that need to be cast out until we take full possession. Those are a couple things I see clearly in the testimony of scripture.

      Jim, I agree with you that scripture does not address the casting out of demons from Christians, specifically. It also does not address smoking… yet, we apply its principles and come to conclusions.

       

      • lookingforhope2011 says:

        I have a question, if a person living in sin comes to Jesus and asks for salvation and wants to change but several months later is still slipping in areas of thoughts, attitude, and speech, did they truly receive salvation? Or are they being oppressed by an outside influencesuxh as a demon etc? Or is it just weak flesh not trying hard enough? Or not really being truly repentant?

        • lookingforhope2011 says:

          I have a friend im trying to help, he comes to me with many problems, a lot of them I can personally relate too. He has trouble being patient with his wife who is very up and down, I been there, he let’s loose with profanity then asks the Lord to forgive him, he is trying I have seen the xhange. All I can tell him is to keep in prayer and not let the enemy gain a foothold. He feels now that he is cursed and no matter how hard he tries its not hard enough. I tell him its not his power to do it but Jesus power in him. We can’t be good enough. Its Gods righteousness not ours that matters. So to go further, maybe its an oppression issue?

          • Timothy Luke says:

            I would consider it an oppression issue. He is born again, hence he is even interested in overcoming, but he has not yet overcome. The whole concept of overcoming is rooted in the fact that we are born "under" something that we are now enabled to "come over" or "overcome". Ephesians 2:2 states we were all born under the influence of the "Prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now works in the children of disobedience."

            Your friend is still under that influence, but needs to come over that influence as he puts it under his feet. Much like the Israelites were to put the enemy under their feet.

            Receiving salvation means we are now connected to the source of our salvation. We once were cut off, but now we are made one with God, who alone is powerful enough to overcome the devil.

            Your friend has a curse operating in his life. The devil comes to bind him to it, by making it an identity issue… for if "I" am cursed, how do I get free of me??? Having a curse, and being a curse, are two different things. Jesus came to set us free from the curse. His sacrifice is sufficient. BUT, we need to apply the grace He gives us to overcome.

            Someone once questioned, "isn't the blood of Jesus sufficient?" Yes it is. The sufficiency of the blood of Jesus to cover us and cleanse us, does not make us clean of itself…. else, what would a Christian still have to overcome? Jesus Christ died for the sins of the world. His sacrifice is sufficient for that, so, if I say, "therefore the whole world is saved!" am I correct? No. Its the same in the church.

            We need to appropriate it on a daily basis… "work out your own salvation with fear and trembling," is not a teaching that indicates instant success. Your friend needs deliverance… Will it be by shouting down devils? I don't think so. There are three means of deliverance:

            1) "You shall know the truth and the truth shall set you free." Many lies we believe are exposed with proper discipleship, and when the light is shone, the roaches flee!

            2) "Resist the devil, and he will flee from you…" The 12 step program operates on this level in addiction recovery. A constant resistance will break the chains of addictions, which are servitude to a spirit greater than our own – hence our willpower is not enough. The prerequisite to resisting is "draw near to God and he will draw near to you."

            3) "if you have faith as a grain of mustard seed, you shall say to this mountain, 'be cast into the sea' and it shall be removed." Jesus was explaining why the devil of epilepsy left at His command and not theirs. He was referring to the kingdom of Satan (as you will find mountains oft used as a type for kingdoms). This is the level 'deliverance ministries' are often most noted for. They tell the devil where to go. I believe this is a final step after the first two have been applied.

            In the midst of this struggle, God sees in your friend what you do… he wants to serve God and not Satan.
            In our conversations, Joe is a warrior who excels in the first step. Being the first step, it is important that we not overlook, nor underestimate that. Surely, much deliverance happens on that level. Your friend needs to be in the Word and in prayer. That will empower him for the next phase of resistance. Having resisted, if there is no breakthrough, then I would recommend seeking a Biblical based deliverance ministry that operates in true love and humility. Press in on these three levels, and the Lord will provide.
            Were Christ to return today, I would hope the direction of the man's heart would place him under the covering of God's grace and the righteousness of Jesus would be imputed to him, for when Jesus returns, the devil will be removed and your friend with have both the will and the means of walking in freedom.

            Does this help put it in perspective? What are your thoughts?

            Shalom,

            Timothy

          • lookingforhope2011 says:

            Its an issue I don’t want to steer him wrong in. As I also have things I must daily battle with. But maybe there is more to it than I see or know. Which in all due respect I might try to introduce him to someone more knowledgeable than i

          • Chris Petersen says:

            When two Hearts are too far apart for spoken words, I suggest writing a letter instead and deliver it by hand.

            My Dearest Darling, I Love you too much to even attempt to talk to you right now, for if I do, I fear my tongue will only betray my True feelings that I have for you. I realise I suffer from “foot in mouth disease” and you deserve so much better. My gift to you right now is Peace with Love from me to you. Please take my hands and gaze into my eyes and see if you can see what I have difficulty putting into words. The door to my Heart was closed and I thought I had lost the key, however I have come to realise that I gave it to you for safe keeping. Please unlock my Heart before it bursts, for the forget-me-nots that you sowed in my Heart are blossoming and require your tender Loving care. I had lost my way to your Heart and sincerely hope you have left it slightly ajar. My Heart beckons for your’s and my tongue falls silent in sincere anticipation that your’s beckons likewise for mine. I ask of thee one thing only, that we may embrace each other so our Hearts can communicate directly that which words can never do justice. All My Love ALWAYS…

          • Annette1016 says:

            You have a beautiful gift my brother, It is very rare to seethat sort of tenderness from some ones heart. Yet without showing the words to be his true feelings, it won’t repair an angry heart. But it is a beautiful beginning. It may just soothe the hurt or rage for them both. Love, your friend and sis in Christ Jesus, Annette

          • lookingforhope2011 says:

            I kind of got lost on that one?

          • Chris Petersen says:

            WRINKLES by John Williamson (Australian)

            Well old Bob hasn’t got much, but he values his boots…
            And he values the time, he spends growing flowers…
            He still Loves his babies, that grew to be men…
            He recalls all the days and the nights… and the hours,
            When he and his woman, worked on the land…
            In the heat, in the dry, in the cold and the wet…
            He still picks her a Rose, and his old Heart still races…
            She’s still the most Beautiful girl…that he’s met.

            CHORUS

            And you ask, is he happy…? (softly)
            And you ask, is he happy…? (forte)
            He’s got wrinkles, from smiling…
            He feels lucky, and free…
            And he knows what it means, to live here…
            In the sunshine…
            He’s got wrinkles——oooh-oooh-hew…

            He walks with Amelia, down to the store…
            With a little cane basket, for the bread and the “Daily Sun”… (Australian newspaper)
            Still hand-in-hand, like babes in the meadow…
            And young faces turn…
            Love is so beautiful, it can be so deep…
            And a man is a King, when he has his own Princess…
            Bob wears no Crown, no long flowing robe…
            But there in his mind he still rides…on his Black Stallion.

            REPEAT CHORUS (same as the first)

            Then a cold winter came, and Bob was alone…
            His Beautiful Princess, had flown with the Angels…
            He faded so quickly, the man became old…
            And the wandering dew, soon covered the Roses…
            First just a cane, then a strong stick for walking…
            Then just a chair, with a Grey old man dying…
            All that he lived for, was always beside him…
            So Bob left in peace… to join his Lady.

            CHORUS (but in past tense)

            And you ask, is he happy…? (softly)
            And you ask, is he happy…? (forte)
            He had wrinkles, from smiling…
            He felt lucky, and free…
            And he knew what it meant, to live here…
            In the sunshine…
            He had wrinkles——oooh-oooh-hew…

            ——
            Maybe try “This Old Guitar” by the late John Denver (American)[RIP]

            footnote:
            Take no thought of what ye might say, but FEEL for the words and the Lord shall provide them for you…

          • Annette1016 says:

            I dreamed my whole life to hear words such as you have written, and even though they were not written with me in mind, I will claim them for my heart. For only the Lord has ever reached my heart that deeply, If only I had waited for one who would Love me that much to make me believe that I was the only woman in the world that he sees as beautiful or better yet, that I was the most beautiful woman in the world. Thank you so much Chris, Love, your sis in Christ Jesus, Annette PS. I also consider you to be a very blessed friend!

          • lookingforhope2011 says:

            For me its kind of hard to offer this friend advice when I got my own battles to win. I can only help in ways that I’ve already walked through.

          • Timothy Luke says:

            To a degree that is true. Sometimes, (often), giving advice is not the most helpful thing… just being there and admitting "I don't know either, but I'm with you!"

            Also, there are common elements of every battle that we can encourage each other on, and seek their prayer on our behalf helps them open up to receive from the Lord as well.

             

          • Chris Petersen says:

            When two Lovers are at “Logger-heads” with each other [arguing or in dispute] they say things that they don’t really mean to say, which closes their Hearts and minds and although they are standing face to face, their Hearts are Galaxies apart. The Lord would say it thus: “I know not where ye are, for thou art far from me”.

            Your friend is trying too hard, trying to make things right rather than letting it come right. Man makes light happen, God says let there be light. He needs to “let” things become normal again as they where, rather than trying to “make” it happen.

            Greg, give the message that I posted in response to your request made on his behalf to him. You may not understand the message, but then again it wasn’t intended for you, but for him. It is not advice to him, but food for thought that follows along the lines that sometimes “less is more”.

            God Bless you both in the name of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. A-Men.

            Your Brother and Friend in Christ Jesus, Christopher John Petersen.

        • Timothy Luke says:

          God alone knows the heart. We ourselves are often deceived. He may not be truly repentant. That could be a block. Let me suggest something else. He may have not forgiven those who have sinned against him. If we do not forgive our debtors, neither will or debts be forgiven, and the power the enemy retains over us remains. Matthew 18 is an example of God giving us over to the tormentors is we do not forgive our brother from our hearts.

          Your friend is tormented.

          If we are not forgiven, are we saved? I'd love to say "yes, it is possible," but I look at it and cannot come to that conclusion. So, if he has asked for salvation, let him also freely forgive, as well as repent, and let the Lord receive him.

          Some are oppressed simply because they have come into (partial, or whole) agreement with what that addiction, or behavior, represents or offers them in the flesh.

    • Chris Petersen says:

      Hello Jim, my Answer to your Question 1 is as follows:

      Simon Barjona-Peter was what I call “self-possessed”, for he minded the things of the flesh and of the world. Jesus could not cast Simon out of himself, however he rebuked him in order to get him to wake-up to himself (666) which happens to be satan’s number also (666) [call it a programming error code if you like]. I also refer to this problem as “the unseen menace” for unless we take a good look in a mirror [self analysis] we can become a danger to others and our own worst enemy. The first rebuke Jesus gave to Simon was when Simon questioned [opposed] the Lord’s judgement. The second time was when Simon gave an assurance to Jesus that he would lay down his life for Him. And the third time was when Simon drew his sword to do battle against “The Will of God” which was that Jesus was always meant to be crucified and be raised again for the Glorification of both God and His Son.

      When Jesus was resurrected after the foretold period of three days, during a meeting of the disciples with the Lord Jesus, Jesus asked Simon three times if he Loved Him and each time Jesus qualified asking him with “IF YOU LOVE ME, FEED MY LAMBS/SHEEP”. To Rightly Divide the Word means to evenly distribute his message to all and in full as received “textus receptus” the received text/words.

      God Bless you all in the name of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

      Your Brother and Friend in Christ Jesus, Christopher John Petersen.

    • Timothy Luke says:

      Jim, you ask:

      1) Where is the scripture, which gives the account, of a known Christian Believer being Delivered of a Demon Possession?

      The account in Mark 5:1-20 and in Luke 8:26-39 of the Gadarene Demoniac, it is clear from the text, he was not a believer before his Deliverance, but wanted to follow Jesus after it.

      2) Where is the teaching given, even overlapping teaching, to the church, such as with the Trinity, for the purpose of ministering deliverance to Christian Believers?

      Let me state that while you bring up good questions, you seem to be embracing what I have been simply stating, that a Christian can have a devil. Is this accurate to say? For your question presupposes a Christian has something to be delivered of. I need your response before I can pursue further – so as to avoid confusion n our dialog.

      Thanks,

      Timothy

      ADDENDUM; In reviewing your note, you are sending mixed messages. You bring up the Gadarene to point out it was prior to his being delivered, so I will presume you do not think a Christian can have a devil… answered my own question, but will first have to show you Biblical evidence of Christians having devils before I can address deliverance from them…. stay tuned… I have examples, but not the time to put them down properly.

  2. rickylane says:

    Sorry ,Holyroller bad choice of words in my part! And not intended at you particularly .But on the subject of Christians having evil spirits is a fact, Priest, Pastors, Teachers, Ministers, of the Word been attack so many times and why, a door was open, and it happens to the best of us, and no one is immune, everybody has to fight even do the battle has been won, when we accept Jesus in our lives we are of his army and the enemy will attack and he knows the Bible better than most. God uses or permits the devil to inflict punishment to believers or disciplined us so we stay in course or for some to be trained for deliverance! and is all in the Bible, first thing Jesus did was to cast out demons, they are there inflicting so many people and they don’t know what it happening to them, it is easier to look the other way that to get involved in spiritual warfare1

    • Holyroller_11 says:

      The demons that were cast out were in sinners,also they had enough of their own will to seek Jesus for help,they came to him,he didn;t go after them,also the scribes and priest,were under the law of moses,like old testament christians sort of speak,Jesus never called out a demon from them,they were evil at heart,but not posessed,what they did was fleshly,not demonic,see the difference I hope, anyway thankyou, also we fight in our christian walk yes,but many things in this world rain on the just and the unjust,wisdom is needed to not blame every bad thing on the devil or God,if the tire goes flat,the devil didn’t do it,or because we get sick,God didn;t punish us for something we said or did,out of line, the bible says RIGHTLY DIVIDE the word,in everything and if a demon is the case,send him packing,don;t make a show of it,but one must use all the things God gives,common sense, righteous judgement,charity,the fruits of the Spirit, today or most likely always,flesh is wanting attention, so wisdom must be used to know when is and is not. I was a member of a church many years ago,that grew strong in Spirit of God,some young people with much zeal,came and recieved Christ,some were gifted speakers,so they moved up quickly in position,song leaders,and such,about a dozen,they sang,witnessed,all the right things,but there was a man in our church,whom all his life,was of a slow mind,a kind person but as the world would say a little off in the brain. well these zealous young group always talking about casting out demons,everything demons,and boasting what they will do if they found one,so one night they were singing,suddenly they walked off the front during the service,into a side room,stayed a minute,came out and went to middle of the church surrounded this old man,and began to shout calling out a demon,the more they tried the louder they got,but no demon,finally they all but pushed the man down,and they shouted some more,I backed up to the door of the church ,knowing this was wrong,looked at the preacher,he laid his head down on the bible stand and waged it in sadness, finally when all else failed they poured olive oil in his mouth and almost drown him.one of the other members then pulled him out and got him home,I went round and round with the preacher to make them apolygise,but he said no,so I said either you tell them or I will,he put his finger in my face and said he was taken atthoroty over me,I said you have none over me.well he later told me he was sorry,and told the young people to say they were sorry,they refused and walked out but not before splitting the church,and over 20 years later it has never recovered,yet before great miracles were done there,now its nothing. when people don’t know what they are doing they can destroy more in 1 day than it will take a lifetime to build.the flesh is more dangerous than any demon,at least he will show his self,demons cannot say Jesus save me, in a man,because Jesus will send them packing,this is how you know!!! now I will be hammered some more,but this is true and I was there, and by the way I loved that old church,I was spiritally born there,I raised the dead there by Jesus,and because of the demon bull its dead now.

      • Annette1016 says:

        I didn’t read this before your letter. oh Dear Joe, This would saddened me as well. Thank You for your report and for your warning to others. Love Your sis in Christ Jesus, Annette

      • lookingforhope2011 says:

        Probably not much to do with the topic, but from what I read in the bible, when Jesus cast out demons, He didn’t shout, dance, or anything. Just said leave. He’d ask the name of the demonand tell it to get lost. Some of the things I’ve seen on utube make a big shouting dancing party out of it. About like the prophets of baal trying to get their god to consume the alter sacrifice. All Elijah did was say a prayer and the fire of Our True God consumed even the rocks! Pretty awesome I think. Anyway that’s my two cents worth

        • lookingforhope2011 says:

          But I also realize that Jesus stayed in constant prayer and fasting. Which He even said in one case that some only come out by fasting. He came to a lost generation. Im quite sure most were sinners and had not been saved yet.

          • Holyroller_11 says:

            I know some say christians can have demons,but I want to is “how does the one casting out the demon of the christian know,the one with the demon is really a christian,they don;t come with name tags.so how can you say a christian can have a demon????

          • lookingforhope2011 says:

            Good point. ! ..I do agree. .Jesus knew, but im not on the same level of wisdom as He is yet. But I do know He gave us outlines to follow to discern things. And a lot of you stronger brothers and sisters probably have that discernment. And are prayed up enough and fasted enough to take on satan himself!,

      • Holyroller_11 says:

        A question of what happens to a supposedly christian with a supposedly demon inside,what happens if you tell that one,they are not really saved yet,thats why they are bound, there are only 2 things,they give up or press God harder to be delivered, OK, now if we say a real christian can have a demon,then what,the christian also can give up.thinking God is not able to deliver or the blood of Jesus is not enough to set us free,must search out someone else to deliver,or help God to deliver, which is right, one or the other,no other choice. so you see how confusion destroys. God is not the author of confusion, wisdom must be used, let me make this clear H.R says a born again saint can not have a demon inside them ! also anyone who does,no matter what they claim (as being a christian)if they have one,they are not born again, (sinner) a sinner is someone who commits SINS,

        • Timothy Luke says:

          This is where definitions come in. You do not know what you are talking about, so the definition now shifts to accomodate your theological grid. This is the point that is troubling. You are really saying, "if you have a devil, you cannot be a Christian."

          So, I submit to you, there are MANY people you would say are Christians that meet all your criteria, except some of them have demonic interference – and so you would deny they have a devil (which can be readily dealt with without the circus shows and the "Exorcist" dramas), thus consigning them to live this life never really free because you are so busy telling them how free they are.

          I know numerous dear, sweet, loving Christians, who were bound in areas that where they had 'given place to the devil'. When the devil was cast out, they had an oppression leave that they had lived with for years, and had a freedom from sin they never knew before.

          Can a Christian have an addiction and still be a Christian Joe, Jim? Please answer me that.

          For surely you can treat an addiction and overcome it without casting out a devil, but you can also cast out a devil and find the addiction gone overnight. All without more than speaking a word to it. If you do not cast out devils, then I question how on earth do you even know what we who have done so are talking about? Yes, people do cast out devils in ways I do not agree with, so do not assume the worst about what Michael and Ricky and I are speaking about, for you really do not know.

          • Holyroller_11 says:

            why do you accuse me of not knowing what I am saying in a public page,I can prove what I say,but I won’t hurt babes in Christ to do it,seems like this is what you want, demons cannot live in a born again,blood washed saint,now if you want to settle this in private or phone,I will, thats my deal! but if you choose to risk hurting babes,then you will do it without me. Ive been in places with God and felt power so great,and more than once,I know what He can do with weak flesh after all ,he made it,I also know what I’m talking about, this is the end of my comments in public on this matter if anyone wants truth ask ,you need to seek God.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ps you need to find him

          • Captainmathew says:

            You said it! You are exactly true! Demons or satanic power can never have access on the one protected by the Holy Spirit! amen!

          • Timothy Luke says:

            I say it in public because the board you are posting on is one that I represent in an official capacity as a moderator, and you are dogmatically stating something contrary to what this board believes.

            If this board truly believes Christians can have a devil, then why would you be surprised that I would question your knowledge of a subject upon which we disagree.

            Sorry for sounding patronizing, but I have helped Christians who have had devils to be free of them. Now, if you have never had a devil, praise the Lord! But for those Christians who do have a devil at work in their lives, to promote what you are saying is to force them to say they are not Christians, when they in fact may have been to the altar more times than you.

            When you are in my house, I get to set the rules and if you disagree, then please be less dogmatic in your disagreements and more focused upon what we agree upon. Otherwise, I always (rightly or wrongly) feel compelled to set the record straight for those who come afterward to let them know your dogmatic statements are not in agreement with the faith of this message board.

            I love you and appreciate you, but I do not agree with you on this issue. That is all there is to it. I have nothing personal against you. You are a man of God who, like the rest of us, do not know everything.This is simply IMHO an area that you are so sure of yourself on, but it goes contrary to my personal and ministry experience.

            Bless you brother…

             

          • Holyroller_11 says:

            you say you did these things and you insist on your opinion is law here,so make full proof of your minstry by testimonies of before deliverence of the christianS,and after, so we may clear it up,list them 1 by 1 ,and what lifestyle before and after, if you can;t ,let it go

          • Timothy Luke says:

            Joe, this site is full of testimonies and examples of these things. Do you need me to add the names of friends, family and fellow believers so they may be called non-Christians? That is the only place for you to go in this discussion, and you appear to me bent on going there. Answer the testimonies of those who have shared already – for surely you will treat mine no differently. You can start with the one shared yesterday by Cubits (perhaps you already have… I haven't checked his thread)

            Attitude check. I have not said my opinion is law here. I have said I must answer to God for how I use my place as a moderator of this site. I have said that in good conscience, I cannot allow the things I believe as error to go unchecked so as to give the appearance they are in agreement with this site.

            I am simply asking that you show RESPECT to the minister who has put in much time and sacrifice for this site and whose ministry has helped and set free many people.

            If I were going to play Law and Order, I would simply delete your posts so as not to confuse the subject with alternate thinking. I do ask, that in respect for the one who's ministry this is, that you not state your opinions as dogma and dismiss certain beliefs held by Michael.

            As I wrote to you in private a few days ago, I do not agree with Michael on every issue either – for we are all different. BUT, when I do disagree, I do not make those areas an issue. I may state my opinion as a personal opinion, without forcing the issue. I also do not build cases for things I disagree with the site administrator on because I respect his ministry and I am not here to force him to defend positions… which in the end are his right to hold; and if he holds them, they become his responsibility to promote as part of the ministry given to him. Humility is key in doing this.

            Romans 14 is important in how we handle disagreements. We are to not judge one another. This discussion has come very close to, if not over the line at times, of accusing one another of not being Christian if we do not agree on this point. That would be error. We all stand or fall before our Maker. Though our convictions and understanding of the Word may differ, God is able to make us stand… and we shall stand… but not if we fall out by the wayside in pride or strife. amen?

            I hope this helps clarify where I am coming from in this discussion. I agree with Michael on this point, but it is because I also believe fully that I am in agreement with the Word and calling of God, that I have made answer according to the Word. I hope you will respect that as well.

            Were I to come onto your message board in the future, I would not stir this pot. I would simply put my shoulder to the wheel on the many issues we agree upon and pitch in with the purpose laid on your heart as best I could.

            Shalom,

            Timothy Luke

            Moderator Extraoridinaire

            (Just checking the bp 🙂

          • Annette1016 says:

            When I read my Bible, I see many of things Jesus did and is still doing. I personally have never seen anyone realy oppressed by a demon, but that doesn’t mean that others haven’t. For I havent seen the air that I breath . But I still breath regardless. Of all the places Jesus went, he was brought those whom were sick and those whom were demon occupied even in the synagogue. But the evil spirits would seem and scream out who Jesus was. Even when he forbade them to speak. Now the thing that those kids did in Joes old church were wrong. Because the slow man would have had a demon make a bit of a ruckuss and it would have been very evident that the man was oppressed. But that didn’t happen, And the leader in the church should have stopped them. All I can say on this subject, is that each person has to walk his own walk with God, and some experience things that others don’t. I do know 2 of the men on here are very Loving men of God. But they challenge the babes in the Lord to seek the answers to this issue . But I know that both are honest and sincere. Well I am unable to answer who is right, but I think both are right as they have been allowed to experience different aspects of the same kind of thing. So do I think a born again believer can have a demon, only if they have slipped and walked in their flesh for awhile. Do I believe that a new babe that is born again can be demon occupied, than yes if they don’t fully give the lord there heart and soul. But do I go around looking for evil. It finds us soon enough so why seek it out. Do I think Joe is right, yes, as far as he has never had to deal with the same problem that Tim has visea- versa. I was hoping that they would open a forum on the middle east situation. Love, your sis in Christ Jesus, Annette

          • Holyroller_11 says:

            you are more than free to pull everything of mine,be my guess, but in the last days doctrines of devils,denighing the power of God ,to save heal,deliver,so have at it, I would think anyone that was truly delivered from demons would gladly want to glorify God with their testimony,maybe I was mistaken,but rest asured ,I cannot stay here,I have shone their are deep places can still be found ,

          • Timothy Luke says:

            First, I have no intention of pulling your posts.

            Secondly, when you say, "I would think anyone that was truly delivered from demons would gladly want to glorify God with their testimony," I wonder why you are so blind as to not see the testimonies they have shared freely on this site…. and they say they were Christians when they were delivered… Yet, you do not receive their testimony because your eyes are blind to them for some reason.

            Enjoy your walk where you feel more completely agreed with. It has been nice, though challenging, to know you!

          • Annette1016 says:

            We are all members of the same family, Is this how you treat your Family? Maybe we all see this differently, but you are both able to put this discussion down and agree on most theology. I think if you wish to debate, than join a debate site. You should both talk with Love, and the way you are talking, where is the loving kindness, where is the patience. I Have seen of your hearts, and come to Love you both. This discussion must end between the two of you. You should for the sake of those whom are babes in the lord. For the fruit of spite and grudge is what we are seeing. Maybe you both should have a day just trying to explaining you have seen Our Lord do and maybe stop and listen to all that the Lord has done through you and others! I Don’t think it is wise to allow the flesh of you both to have a Ruin this forum. With Love I speak, and if I am too harsh please forgive me, I don’t wish to see either of you men of God to leave this site. With compassion and tenderness, I ask you to lay this down and pray for eachother. For if you can’t get along here, How will you in the House of our Father? Love, Your sis in Christ Jesus, Annette

          • Sometimes its a little challenging, when brothers in Christ accuse you of being unsaved or a false teacher or whatever …

             

            But we are supposed to be kind to one another, tender-hearted.

             

            At some stage, one has to draw the line. Its not a question of persecuting people for speaking the truth as they see it. Its a question of having an online community where the fruit of the Spirit is in evidence between people who say they are Christians, sanctified, filled with the love of Jesus, whatever.

          • Annette1016 says:

            I didn’t mean to get so upsetplease forgive me l hope I didn’t hurt anyone. Love in Christ Jesus,Annette

          • I wasn't writing with you in mind, Annette. I think you have a very tender conscience, and you are writing in love.

            If you are angry and upset I didn't know it, but I could see that the unloving tendencies in some posts were grieving you.

          • Annette1016 says:

            Thank you again, love your sis in Christ Jesus, Annette

          • lookingforhope2011 says:

            I see there has been quite the rift since I went to sleep and got back up! I have met some very dear people on here, and as in all close families there are differences, that is what makes us all unique. Unfortunately being online and from all parts of the world and country its hard to sit down face to face and work things out, but we still are called to the same family. Let us not grow apart but closer together, this is what Jesus would want. There are some issues we either agree on or not agree, in those times let’s agree to disagree?. I don’t know. We all need each other. We all need Jesus. I need Him.

          • You say you cannot stay here. Feel free to leave. May God bless you. Just know that what we are teaching here we are doing so in good conscience, with a view to helping people get ACTUAL victory in overcoming Satan through the power of the Spirit.

            If you really don't like what this site is all about, rather than stirring up dissension, you might be better off asking the Lord how to do your own online outreach.

            If you do that, we can only wish you will turn many to righteousness. 

          • Holyroller_11 says:

            go ahead and close my account here,I won’t be on this site again.been nice,God bless everyone,

          • Chris Petersen says:

            Joseph, please reflect on the message I sent you and offer the situation to the Lord. He is your master and will Faithfully guide you as to what to do. I for one would be sadened to loose your fellowship here. What ever you decide to do and where ever your walk with the Lord taketh thee, it shall ALWAYS be my deep desire for you to be Blessed with His company of the Comforter through the Holy Ghost. God be with you always Joseph, your Brother and Friend in Christ Jesus, Christopher John Petersen.

          • Timothy Luke says:

            amen.

          • Timothy Luke says:

            Dear Joe,

            It may be helpful to pull yourself away for a couple weeks and let the dust settle on this. I think leaving is not the best thing for you. I think the board and conversations are very fluid. I would ask you to reflect on respect.

            If you, after a couple weeks off, can respect the right of the board to articulate and defend its beliefs. Or, more importantly, respect the beliefs of the board and not feel the need to challenge the points of disagreement you have with it, then by all means, post again.

            If you feel the errors of the board are so great that you must overturn them, expose them, or whatever, then please, find your peace and your place elsewhere… for it is when we are not in agreement, and choose to walk in disagreement rather than in the agreement we have in other areas, that we fail.

            I understand your frustration. I understand the desire to just walk away. I think it is the easy way out – for both of us.

            I have had no problem with you stating your beliefs as your own beliefs when they are not in agreement with the board. I have had a problem having your beliefs preached as fact and I feeling responsible to address those 'facts' and challenge them.

            Also, you have challenged me, and I have had to answer. (or explain why I will not answer) some things to address the challenges, or leave the impression I have no answer and our positions are not scripturally sound.

            So, please, take a season to let this pass and if you feel there is enough agreed upon areas to sustain a healthy dialog, come back and continue to be the blessing you have been, and lets walk in those areas.

            If you feel there is not enough common ground, then God bless you. There is a better place for you to be and there is certainly no ill-will here. I have been blessed by some of the things you have shared with me!

            Sincerely,

            Timothy

             

          • Holyroller_11 says:

            I pray God will take you in deeper places with him,I also would like to say you have a lot to offer God,I want no hard feelings with you or anyone, as we all a little rough around the edges,but dedicated is something I credit you with.A rare thing these last days,and in your spare time research,santfication by God,and maybe the distance between us may be less,someday, my best wishes are with you

          • Timothy Luke says:

            Thank you Joe, and I do take the challenges to my thinking seriously. It is a rare person who comes into a discussion with a passion, who can/will change sides. While I do not change sides for the sake of making peace, or the sake of change itself, I also do not want to be guilty of not changing sides simply because I have not thoroughly considered the other's point of view. God bless and prosper you. You are loved!

            Timothy

          • lookingforhope2011 says:

            God is good

  3. rickylane says:

    Well put Timothy Luke, some people need to open their eyes, maybe this book can do just that. Spiritual Warfare Manual by Dr.Ed Murphy ,try it Holyroller ! and the other expert on this site. Someone erased a post of mine in this regards but well!

    • Holyroller_11 says:

      I am no expert,not quite sure of the remark,but I don’t need any book other than the Bible,any other info I recieve is on my knees and I stay until I find my answer strait from God,in him I trust, what I know is from God,not man, thankyou.

  4. Sister.Belonde.Ynth says:

    You a stiff necked people shall face judgement

    Beg Gods mercy for the pridefull, stubborn fallen ones and Godspeed to his anointed tool here on earth. selah

  5. childofjesus says:

    Once we are born again christians, the fact is that we join the “Army of the Living God”.
    We are engaged into Spiritual battlefield every moment of our life.The good news is that however fierce the battle is, at the end we will be victorious through Jesus Christ.So take courage and face the Enemy with boldness which we have in Jesus.

    The boss(non christian) of my company once said to me this “buisness” is like a war zone for me.Every morning when i get up, i ready myself for the war.I thought in my mind, that even i get up every morning and get ready for Spiritual battle, but thanks be to God, we have Jesus who will come with us for the battle..Amen

  6. lookinforacity says:

    You are right when you say.
    “No where in scripture does it say, the holy spirit cannot dwell in an imperfect person.”

    HOWEVER, scripture does tell us what God did not allow.
    What we do know, is that God would not allow, anyone except the High Priest in the Holy of Holies, plus Gods’ restrictions on anyone which would “offer the offerings of the LORD made by fire”

    Heb. 9:7
    But into the second went the high priest alone once every year, not without blood, which he offered for himself, and for the errors of the people:

    Num. 18:7
    Therefore thou and thy sons with thee shall keep your priest’s office for every thing of the altar, and within the vail; and ye shall serve: I have given your priest’s office unto you as a service of gift: and the stranger that cometh nigh shall be put to death.

    Eze. 44:9
    Thus saith the Lord GOD; No stranger, uncircumcised in heart, nor uncircumcised in flesh, shall enter into my sanctuary, of any stranger that is among the children of Israel.

    Lev 21:16-24
    16) And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,
    17) Speak unto Aaron, saying, Whosoever he be of thy seed in their generations that hath any blemish, let him not approach to offer the bread of his God.
    18) For whatsoever man he be that hath a blemish, he shall not approach: a blind man, or a lame, or he that hath a flat nose, or any thing superfluous,
    19) Or a man that is brokenfooted, or brokenhanded,
    20) Or crookbackt, or a dwarf, or that hath a blemish in his eye, or be scurvy, or scabbed, or hath his stones broken;
    21) No man that hath a blemish of the seed of Aaron the priest shall come nigh to offer the offerings of the LORD made by fire: he hath a blemish; he shall not come nigh to offer the bread of his God.
    22) He shall eat the bread of his God, both of the most holy, and of the holy.
    23) Only he shall not go in unto the vail, nor come nigh unto the altar, because he hath a blemish; that he profane not my sanctuaries: for I the LORD do sanctify them.
    24) And Moses told it unto Aaron, and to his sons, and unto all the children of Israel.

    All of these are the restrictions, which God placed upon the service of the Temple, it was also only for the Tribe of Levi, of the sons of Aaron, a very small select group.

    We are the Temple of the Holy Spirit which is in us, we are also Sanctified by Him, having been sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise.

    1 Co 3:16,17
    16) Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
    17) If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.

    Apparently God does not now hold the cleanliness of His New Temple (within the hearts of men) to the same strict standard which He did with the first Temple, where He would not allow anything to desecrate His dwelling place on earth.
    To allowing Satan to dwell in the same Temple He has bought and paid for, and filled with His Holy Spirit.
    When God buys a vessel, He cleans it out for a habitation of the Spirit, this process is called Sanctification.

    Sanctification
    G38
    ἁγιασμός
    hagiasmos
    hag-ee-as-mos’
    From G37; properly purification, that is, (the state) purity; concretely (by Hebraism) a purifier: – holiness, sanctification.

    The process of Sanctification is always in the past tense, (Are Sanctified), but never is it used in the future tense, (Will be Sanctified) as with a Progressive Sanctification.

    Paul tells us this concerning our flesh.
    2 Co. 6:14
    Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for (WHAT FELLOWSHIP HATH RIGHTEOUSNESS WITH UNRIGHTEOUSNESS)? and (WHAT COMMUNION HATH LIGHT WITH DARKNESS)?

    But we are to believe that God “WILL” become yoked together with Satan. (Double standard)?

    At the time of the end, we are told the Sacrifices in the Temple will be halted because of the “Abomination of Desolation” God will not be acquainted with Evil.

    • Timothy Luke says:

      Jim, At least you are consistent in your theology. You believe a Christian cannot sin and that a Christian cannot have a devil.

       

      Follow the question of 2 Corinthians 6:14, "WHAT FELLOWSHIP HATH RIGHTEOUSNESS WITH UNRIGHTEOUSNESS)? and (WHAT COMMUNION HATH LIGHT WITH DARKNESS)?" and you will read, not a celebration of our total liberation from these forces forever, but rather an injunction to therefore.

      2 Cor. 6:16  "And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people."

      2 Cor 7:1  "Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God."

      Jim, you can surely see here that given what he said in the verses you quoted, the conclusion Paul came to is different than the one you did. You conclude therefore we are free from spiritual pollution of unclean spirits dwelling in our spirit man. Paul concludes therefore there is work to be done to rid our spirit man of unclean spirits and their influence. 

      You conclude, we are clean as Christians.

      Paul concludes, "let us cleanse ourselves…" from all filthiness in the flesh, AND spirit.

      We are in the 'in between" of having the Holy Spirit leading us out of Egypt, but wallking in the wilderness and entering the Promised Land. We have giants in our land that have yet to be subdued, for some.

      The Old Testament parallel of this is when Israel was given the Promised Land. God gave it to them, but was it simply handed over to them, lock, stock and barrel? No. They had war on their hands. They had to choose to totally destroy the people of the land, or end up serving them again and their gods… this is like the admonition to cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the Flesh – people of Canaan, and of the spirit – the gods of the land.

      Having entered, we have yet to subdue our flesh. We have yet to kick out the false gods our flesh serves… hence, we are called to active duty as Christians, do cleanse  ourselves, even after receiving the Holy Spirit dwelling within us. For there is NO WAY to cleanse our hearts UNTIL the Holy Spirit comes to live in us. He gives us the discernment to know who, what and where, the giants are and He lays out the battle plans to drive them out of the Land.

      Shalom,

      Timothy

       

       

       

       

      • Holyroller_11 says:

        all we can do after GOD CLEANSES us,is to work dailly with his power in us,keeping ourselves unspoted from the world and sin. you can no more cleanse yourself than you can save yourself, the old testament saints didn’t have the HolyGhost inside,only upon them,we can have him on the inside,and should,but it is possible to have him upon us and not inside today,but thats another arguement another day.but regardless Tim your mistaken

        • Timothy Luke says:

          Take that up with Paul. He said, "let us cleanse ourselves..." You can take it up with the Apostle John for that matter also, for he says, "And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure."  1Jn 3:3

          Water only cleans when you scrub with it. It is the agent, we are the participants. 

          • Holyroller_11 says:

            I see you are never going to understand so for the sake of moving on,I am done,but paul talks about after they were saved and blood washed,then we keep ourselves,I over estimated where you are,your still mistaten but its between you and the Lord,you take it up with God!!!!!

      • lookinforacity says:

        TIM

        As I remember the story to be, Joshua the son of Nun, and Caleb the son of Jephunneh, were the only two of the spies which said, the people could take the land, and that was because they believed the Lord, that He was with them.
        The people believed the lie, that “There were Giants in the Land”, and they were to small of a people, to take the land.
        Therefore God set His heart against them, saying they would not inter the land which He had given to them. For the people did not believe God, by the Miracles He had shown them, in His bringing them out of Egypt.

        The analogy is.
        God brought them out of Egypt and the house of bondage, they would no longer be slaves.
        They did nothing to earn their freedom.

        In like manner, we who are called Christians.
        God has also by His Grace, brought us out of the house of bondage, our own Egypt, (the World), where we were held slaves, we have done nothing to earn this freedom, it is the gift of God.

        God brought the Israelites to the Promised Land, they were told to go in a conquer the Land, they believed they would have to fight battles by themselves, God would have fought their battles for them, but they did not believe God and were sent into the wilderness for forty years, all those of that generation died in the wilderness, because of their unbelief.

        The Land God brought the Israelites to, was in the physical realm, there were peoples which lived in the Land which had to be defeated, before they could possess it, they had to place their trust in God to defeat their enemy’s.
        They did not place their trust in God, they doubted, and had fear, when God brought them back again, they were then ready to go in and possess the Land, God showed the Israelites how He would fight for them when they came to the first city, which was Jericho.

        It is at this point the analogy ceases to exist, the Promised Land for the Christian, is the Kingdom of God, which is in the Spiritual realm.
        God has not brought us to the Promised Land, as He did with the Israelites, He has placed us in the Promised Land, having already fought the battles for us, there are not any battles which have to be fought in order for us to possess the Land, all of the battles which had to be fought, were fought to free us from the powers of evil, which held us captive in Egypt.
        The Enemy has already been defeated, by the work Jesus did on the Cross.

        Col. 1:13
        Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:

        The Israelites, did not believe God had already given them the land, having had already fought the battles for them.
        God had prepared for them a Land, which flowed with milk and honey, but they refused their inheritance, therefore they would not see, or enter the Promised Land, for another forty years.

        When we believe God, we become part of the household of faith, being the children of faith.
        Jesus has gained access for us into the Promised Land, (The Kingdom)
        “THERE ARE NO GIANTS IN THE LAND” we have Possessed the Land.

        Be Blessed
        JIM

  7. Sister.Belonde.Ynth says:

    I’m confused. God is not a God of confusion. Therefore what I’m hearing must not be of God but of the devil, doublespeaking as always. I have no idea what’s the plan for man, so nothing changes…again.

    • Annette1016 says:

      Oh dear sister, I don’t think they are trying to confuse anyone, they sometimes speak a bit over my head, but they are all very serious when they discuss the lord. Each quotes the bible correctly and they both Have deep love for their fellow man. I usually sit back and read what they say and if I have trouble understanding, then I ask a Question. Nice to meet you, I hope you take some time to get to know others on this site and even send a prayer request if you need to. Love in Christ Jesus, Annette

  8. lookinforacity says:

    .

  9. bornagainbytheblood says:

    A child of God cannot be possessed with a devil, but there are demons that come to torment the minds of the born again children of God to bring oppression and depression. The mind and the soul are separate; the soul is protected by the blood but the mind must be girded through using the Word. If you fail to gird up your mind then the devil will cripple you to the point that you won’t even think you’re saved.

    • childofjesus says:

      No child of God can be possessed by demons but every child of God is attacked by them..Therefore St. Paul has urged us in Esp 6:13 – “Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.”
      Esp 6:14-18
      14 Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness;

      15 And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace;

      16 Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked.

      17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:

      18 Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints;

      • Annette1016 says:

        Great quote Sweet Sister Santa! Love, your sis in Christ Jesus, Annette

      • Holyroller_11 says:

        helmet of salvation,(changes our direction from hell to heaven,from satan to Jesus) breastplate of righteousness,( cleansing by God,no one in the heart but Jesus) two edged sword,the word of God,cutting both coming and going against the wiles of the enemy),there is no armor on our back,for retreat,onward Christian soldiors,to the great high calling of God,no weapons forged against us shall prevail. Who is able to pluck us out of the Hand of God!!! no one,living or dead amen

  10. Holyroller_11 says:

    the church world is slack,mostly because as soon as someone says yes to Jesus,they claim to be called for something,but the truth is they are in need of santification by the Spirit,and spend time in study and prayer,also to have some kind of testimony to stand on. but people can;t wait for what is nessasary to be able to teach truth,they just want to go directly to the front seat,rather than start at the back and work your way up.everyone now is casting out something,mostly to make themselves look more than others,(for show),it seems to me Jesus did more healings,raising the dead and feeding the hungry than he ever did casting out demons.So where is the healings ? it takes the same God,the same faith, there are still healings,but these babies in minstry, rather cast something out,because its easier to fool people into thinking how powerful these babies are! the truth is most people don’t know the difference from demonic or fleshly shows. we are not called for show biz,we are called to preach repentance to a lost and dying world,before its too late. I have said it before the Holy Ghost WILL NOT dwell in an unclean temple.to make it plain,if demons are in you,you are not a child of God,!!! now you can use the judge word!! but you should use the truth word instead !!

    • michael says:

      You can't prove this from the Bible. It would be easier to prove that if a person sins at all they are not born again. But that would be false also. I have given detailed teaching elsewhere on this site demonstrating what I teach biblically.

      http://www.christian-faith.com/forjesus/can-christians-have-demons

      Have a read of Mark chapter 1 if you want to get an idea of what Jesus' day to day ministry looked like. 38And he said unto them, Let us go into the next towns, that I may preach there also: for therefore came I forth. 39And he preached in their synagogues throughout all Galilee, and cast out devils.

      We cannot improve on the ministry of Jesus. Under your theological grid, no one would ever admit their need for a deliverance, because it would be the same as saying they are not a child of God. And even if out of desperation they admitted this, just to get help, I don't think you'd cast the demon out, you'd probably tell them to repent, pray and get sanctified (tell me if I'm wrong). For you then Joe, the example of Jesus just isn't relevant in this matter. But you can't improve on the ministry of Jesus. God didn't cause half the New Testament to be written as the gospels, just so theologians could say it is no longer relevant to the way we should do things.

      • Holyroller_11 says:

        I think to you call everything a demon,so over kill is an issue as well, as for sanctification,if any experence santification by God there will no demon or devil stay in that temple,evedenently you have never experenced it other wise this would be clear, but these teaching are and have been from many different chuches for 300 years ever since the latter rain began. so I will say again look at these shows of demon removal and if you can’t see clear ,may God open your eyes. I have been in the Lord;s service along time and what I say is by experence and with witnesses,28 years to be clear.you have people chasing ghost instead of getting souls ready to meet God,I pray God show you whats right, also he never gave 1 sermon on casting out demons,not 1,how many have you given,and I or anyone can take 1 or 2 scritures and make a case on anything. If babes looking for answers on salvation they have a confusing time,because there are more TALK about demons than simple salvation ! the bible says make FULL proof of thy minstry, you talk as if sanctication by the Holy Ghost is a small thing and won’t completely cleanse the temple,If this is what you are trying to imply,you are not insulting me,but God.

        • Chris Petersen says:

          Matthew 12:43-45 “When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest, and findeth none. Then he saith, I will return into my house from whence I came out; and when he is come, he findeth it empty, swept, and garnished. Then goeth he, and taketh with himself seven other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter in and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first. Even so shall it be also unto this wicked generation.”

          The Lord would not have said this if it were not so. Once saved always saved is a deception instilled into the unsuspecting Christian. The True Benediction in John 3:16 is the hope of Resurrection and Eternal Life through Faith in his Word and is consistent with that quoted above. Just change the word from SHOULD to SHALL or MAY to WILL and you change a possibility into a guarantee. Those who Believe and have Faith in God’s [unaltered] Word do not need any guarantee for God has their TRUST. Those who require a guarantee “stake their life on it”, and there will be whaling and gnashing of teeth. The anti-Christ tried to burn Bibles and people in world war II, having failed to do that, he turned to corrupting the Bible and turning Christians against themselves and God. I myself live in the Hope of Resurrection and Eternal Life and assume nothing [count my chickens…]. The easiest way for satan to STEAL souls from God is to convince us to steal defeat [believe his lies] from the jaws of Victory [believing the unadulterated TRUTH].

          God Bless you all in the name of Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour.

          Your Brother and Friend in Christ Jesus, Christopher John Petersen.
          p.s. But my words DO NOT CHANGE.

          • Holyroller_11 says:

            this saying is for those who had salvation and the temple was cleaned and later that soul lost his salvation and walked away from God,then the unclean spirits came back,but when the Holy Ghost is in a man,the strongest man will not let the lesser move back in .

          • Holyroller_11 says:

            the great deception is people talk about deep things they know nothing about,but instead of finding out the hard way on their knees,try to say others are wrong who KNOW for FACT,because it didn’t happen to them,and the ONLY reason it didn;t is because they would not take the time to seek. Then pride rises up.when called,the bible says we must start on the back seat,for if we go to the front seat early,the rightful person comes and ask them to move in their place,then they are offended.the glory of demons here are more popular than Almighty God.(deception is the right word, This is why we see less REAL miracles in our churches today,everyone wants to be chief.regardless of abilty

      • Timothy Luke says:

        Hey Michael, have you ever met anybody who said a Christian cannot have a devil? I’ve heard of such folks, and they deny the reality of what I have witnessed, and then, in the absence of what I have witnessed, they judge the persons who were delivered as not being Christian in the first place. It is a theology that is based upon circular reasoning more than reality. Perhaps it helps to switch it around and say, “can a devil have a Christian?”

        • Holyroller_11 says:

          I am not surprised at this,So I will say again the temple (body) MUST be cleansed and the seed of sin removed,and If you or anyone trys to say there is no sanctification by the Holy Ghost,you go against 1st God plus almost every church and their teaching from over 300 years,so you just as well start a new cult. I also say when a believer seeks God and actually finds him in a supernatural way,he finds sanctification and if the Holy Ghost sanctification is not strong enough to cleanse completely ,then whosoever claims this is calling God and his book a lier,and they can deal with him,not me. demons cannot live in a HolyGhost filled temple,and anyone who says different I pity them,for God is almighty.you can’t serve 2 masters

          • Timothy Luke says:

            So now we come to a discussion of what sanctification means. Ever clean a vessel? The dirt comes off in a sequence, not POOF. We are called to "circumcise our hearts.." This is a cutting off of unclean from the clean.

             

            In the end, what you are saying Joe is filtered from a theological grid that does not line up with the Word of God as much as it does with emotional ideals.

            God and Satan can be at the same place at the same time without God throwing up or running out of the room screaming. "see Job, the sons of God came before God and Satan came among them…" It was a civil discourse.

            God is everywhere. "though I make my bed in hell, behold you are there…" God CAN dwell in hell. The Holy Spirit is God, God is one. The Holy Spirit in Christians confronts the devil all the time, and is the power by which we cast out demons. So, what is all the b.s. about the Holy Spirit not being able to dwell in an unclean temple? How on earth can the temple be cleansed without the Holy Spirit doing the work?

            The Holy Spirit is not 'demoniphobic', and your theology implies that as you make statements that have ZERO scriptural support. You are taking verses and reading your grid into it, but the Bible does not say, "the Holy Spirit cannot dwell in a person who has a devil."

            No where in scripture does it say "the holy spirit cannot dwell in an imperfect person." It DOES say that we as Christians have a choice as to whom we serve at any given time in our walk. It DOES say that Christians can 'give place to the devil,' and the context of that in Eph 4:26 is that it does not take much for that to happen.

            The Bible DOES say, to Christians, they can fulfill the lusts of the flesh and serve the carnal mind, OR they can walk in the spirit.  You have a DUAL track here Joe! A person cannot walk in the spirit if they do not HAVE the SPIRIT… yet, that same person can CHOOSE to walk in the FLESH, and when you look at the works of the flesh, you will notice heavy duty stuff that demons drive people to do.

             

             

          • Holyroller_11 says:

            sanctification is instant(poof) if the vessel is willing to wait on God to deliver,but this is where the problem has been for many and many years,if you check,this is the teching of ,church of God,church of the Nazerine,pentecostal,church of Christ,assembly of God, and many more,yet are you trying to say,all our forfathers of great moves of God,and are the reason we even know of a holiness movement,whom got there teaching on their knees hours and days and weeks for all of us, these are wrong and you are right, look up the teaching on church of the Nazerine or pentecostal holiness church today their teachings say (instant) or in your words poof,and also mine was poof after hours of seeking,but in 1 night poof,so don’t tell me different,I know BETTER.

          • Holyroller_11 says:

            the scritures are everywhere declaring,being cleaned by the Very Spirit of God,but you must look,and have Godly understanding. Being this discussion started out on demons in chosen vessels. If you read the bible you will see,Jesus cast out demons on unsaved people,those that CLAIMED righteous yet opposed him in the religious world.(whom thought they knew it all )by the written word.Jesus never attemped to cast out spirits,isn’t that odd,being here on this site,thats the very ones (christians)are targeted for demon removal. Its no wonder Jesus had to go into the garden to pray all night,to keep the flesh under subjection. Yet Jesus never gave a sermon on casting out spirits,never called the priest demon posessed,even when they were planning to kill him. Because they were not posessed,they were lead by satan and they listened to the wrong people.then pride and high mindedness caused them to want him dead, but the un saved or sinner of that day,some were posessed,had more sense and came running to Jesus for deliverence. the bible says When the spirits have left the vessel,and the vessel is cleansed,(who cleaned it)and why did the spirits leave?, when they come back(how can they come back,unless the Spirit that drove them out is gone) the state of that person is worst than before. now,is this not instant cleansing,or why did the bad spirits have to leave at all. where is sound doctrine?

        • Holyroller_11 says:

          If demons are sinfilled creatures,and when a person recieves salvation AND the blood really washes away all unrighteousness,then how could a sinful being excape from being washed away also? how does this make sense ? does the blood wash away sin or not? are demons full of unrighteousness and disobedience,is so they are sin,and both light and darkness can;t be in the same place. also how can one person know the other person is truly a christian. so how can one say a christian can have a demon ? yet I am told I say what Jesus said is irrelevant,but in truth,I say what the bible says,light and darkness can’t be together,or the blood of Jesus WASHES ALL sin away, now I’m confused, what class is a demon ,light or darkness,sin or not sin.as far as accusing ,this is not accusing,this is rooting out false doctrine for the sake of people dying lost,with no clue why. but it is not new to shine light on darkness and be attacked.

          • Annette1016 says:

            I think that Tim is speaking about strongholds more than being born again and washed clean in the blood of the lamb. I often think when I have read what you both Have written that you are actually speaking about the same thing, but instead of taking a moment and re reading what the other has written, you both seam to misscommunicate somewhere in the process. I would think that one of you is speaking about first being born again the other is speaking of after you have been born again and in need of sanctification. I have often been wrong, but I just wanted you both to understand that is the way that I read what you both Have written. I hope I helped, Love your sis in Christ Jesus our lord, Annette

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