Breaking the Bastard Curse – Chapter 7

Chapter 7

Tracing the Curse of the Bastard

How does satan use the bastard curse to keep God’s people from drawing near? How has he used it to frustrate the purposes of God to have close fellowship with His people? To answer these questions, let’s begin again in Deuteronomy 23.


Deuteronomy 23:2 and 3
A bastard shall not enter into the congregation of the LORD; even to his tenth generation shall he not enter into the congregation of the LORD.
An Ammonite or Moabite shall not enter into the congregation of the LORD; even to their tenth generation shall they not enter into the congregation of the LORD for ever:

Why does God immediately mention that the Ammonites and Moabites fell under the bastard curse? The reason is explained in verse four: they failed to help Israel with bread and water in the wilderness, and because they hired the prophet Balaam to curse them.

But, these behaviors are the direct result of the bastard curse, and the record of this incident is noted in Genesis 19:30-38.20 In these Scriptures, Lot’s daughters have no husbands after the cities Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed. In order to raise up children to carry on their father’s name, they got their father drunk and laid with him at night. Both daughters became pregnant from their incest and bore sons, Ammon and Moab, who became the nations by those names.

Ammon and Moab were bastard children. They and their descendents could never come into the congregation of the Lord forever. The bastard curse on these children, however, gave satan the authority to attack God’s people with curses. This time, those attacks were thwarted by God’s love over Israel. But satan got better at using this curse with time.

The first Biblical reference to bastard offspring occurred in Genesis, chapter six. The days of Noah were filled with wickedness. The sons of God are angels whom Jude 1:6 records as having left their first estate. They came to earth to dwell with women. Their offspring were bastards. Their imaginations were evil continually, and God repented of having made mankind.21 A significant part of why God’s heart was grieved was due to the bastard curse on the bloodlines.

God created man, not only in his image, but he also created man for fellowship. The bastard curse prevents that fellowship from occurring because the consequence of this curse is that people are not able to come into the congregation of the Lord. It is God’s primary will that we come into the congregation of the Lord, because this is the place of intimacy and fellowship – the purpose for making man in the first place!

Noah’s flood killed the bastard offspring. But interestingly, Scriptures later mention giants in the earth, and evil prevailed in mankind. Goliath, for example, came from Gath in Philistia in David’s time, much later than the flood. Zechariah 9:6 notes that a bastard shall dwell in Ashdod, a city of Philistia not much more than ten miles distance from Goliath’s home town, and that God will cut off the pride of the Philistines, which was Goliath. David, as we will learn later in the next chapter, was not encumbered by the bastard curse at that time.

Satan’s next attempt to introduce the bastard curse on the bloodline of God’s people occurred with Abram. God had covenanted with Abram, declaring that he would be the father of many nations. Abram and Sarah faithlessly pre-empted God by taking Hagar and producing the bastard son, Ishmael. Ishmael was cursed. He was not God’s plan. Ishmael was the result of Abraham’s flesh-decision to do God’s will his own way instead of God’s way.


Genesis 16:11-12
And the angel of the LORD said unto her, Behold, thou art with child, and shalt bear a son, and shalt call his name Ishmael; because the LORD hath heard thy affliction.

And he will be a wild man; his hand will be against every man, and every man’s hand against him; and he shall dwell in the presence of all his brethren.

Ishmael would be unable to live peaceably with every man. Think about this. The bastard curse prevents people from fellowship with God and with others. This curse lasts for at least 400 years. Naturally, satan doesn’t stop fostering this curse simply with the first incidence, but endeavors to keep it running continually with subsequent generations as well. Ishmael, and all his progeny, are under this curse. Who are Ishmael’s descendents? They constitute one of the world’s three great religions today which claim Abraham as their father. This curse is very far reaching, even today.

The next recorded incident of the bastard curse at work is in Genesis 38. The entire chapter relates how Judah refused to give either of his two remaining sons to his widowed daughter-in-law, Tamar, as required under the law. Realizing this, Tamar dressed as a prostitute and seduced her father-in-law to lie with her. The children that resulted from this incest were illegitimate. They were bastards, and thus the bastard curse commenced upon them and their progeny for the next ten generations.


Genesis 38:1-30
And it came to pass at that time, that Judah went down from his brethren, and turned in to a certain Adullamite, whose name was Hirah.
And Judah saw there a daughter of a certain Canaanite, whose name was Shuah; and he took her, and went in unto her.
And she conceived, and bare a son; and he called his name Er.

And she conceived again, and bare a son; and she called his name Onan.
And she yet again conceived, and bare a son; and called his name Shelah: and he was at Chezib, when she bare him.
And Judah took a wife for Er his firstborn, whose name was Tamar.
And Er, Judah’s firstborn, was wicked in the sight of the LORD; and the LORD slew him.
And Judah said unto Onan, Go in unto thy brother’s wife, and marry her, and raise up seed to thy brother.
And Onan knew that the seed should not be his; and it came to pass, when he went in unto his brother’s wife, that he spilled it on the ground, lest that he should give seed to his brother.
And the thing which he did displeased the LORD: wherefore he slew him also.
Then said Judah to Tamar his daughter in law, Remain a widow at thy father’s house, till Shelah my son be grown: for he said, Lest peradventure he die also, as his brethren did. And Tamar went and dwelt in her father’s house.
And in process of time the daughter of Shuah Judah’s wife died; and Judah was comforted, and went up unto his sheepshearers to Timnath, he and his friend Hirah the Adullamite.

And it was told Tamar, saying, Behold thy father in law goeth up to Timnath to shear his sheep.
And she put her widow’s garments off from her, and covered her with a vail, and wrapped herself, and sat in an open place, which is by the way to Timnath; for she saw that Shelah was grown, and she was not given unto him to wife.
When Judah saw her, he thought her to be an harlot; because she had covered her face.
And he turned unto her by the way, and said, Go to, I pray thee, let me come in unto thee; (for he knew not that she was his daughter in law.) And she said, What wilt thou give me, that thou mayest come in unto me?
And he said, I will send thee a kid from the flock. And she said, Wilt thou give me a pledge, till thou send it?
And he said, What pledge shall I give thee? And she said, Thy signet, and thy bracelets, and thy staff that is in thine hand. And he gave it her, and came in unto her, and she conceived by him.
And she arose, and went away, and laid by her vail from her, and put on the garments of her widowhood.
And Judah sent the kid by the hand of his friend the Adullamite, to receive his pledge from the woman’s hand: but he found her not.
Then he asked the men of that place, saying, Where is the harlot, that was openly by the way side? And they said, There was no harlot in this place.

And he returned to Judah, and said, I cannot find her; and also the men of the place said, that there was no harlot in this place.
And Judah said, Let her take it to her, lest we be shamed: behold, I sent this kid, and thou hast not found her.
And it came to pass about three months after, that it was told Judah, saying, Tamar thy daughter in law hath played the harlot; and also, behold, she is with child by whoredom. And Judah said, Bring her forth, and let her be burnt.
When she was brought forth, she sent to her father in law, saying, By the man, whose these are, am I with child: and she said, Discern, I pray thee, whose are these, the signet, and bracelets, and staff.
And Judah acknowledged them, and said, She hath been more righteous than I; because that I gave her not to Shelah my son. And he knew her again no more.
And it came to pass in the time of her travail, that, behold, twins were in her womb.
And it came to pass, when she travailed, that the one put out his hand: and the midwife took and bound upon his hand a scarlet thread, saying, This came out first.
And it came to pass, as he drew back his hand, that, behold, his brother came out: and she said, How hast thou broken forth? this breach be upon thee: therefore his name was called Pharez.
And afterward came out his brother, that had the scarlet thread upon his hand: and his name was called Zarah.

Satan tried very hard to corrupt the bloodline through which Jesus Christ would be on his mother’s side. The bastard curse is very powerful. Sin leads to more sin. But the bastard curse is what injects a corrupting effect that lasts for ten generations.

No other sin in the Bible results in such an enduring curse. Death was the only means to eradicate the effects of this curse in the Old Testament. To eliminate it, not only was the death of the immediate perpetrators required, but their entire bloodline had to be purged by death. Remember, if only one person was spared, the curse could continue to proliferate in subsequent generations. We are not simply talking about sin that could be erased through repentance or any other means of sacrifice. The bastard curse’s effect was lasting, and in effect, was satan’s heavy artillery to destroy the bloodline as well as keep God’s children from the congregation of the Lord.

Tamar deceived Judah. There were many serious sins involved. Not only did she deceive him, but Judah’s sons were bastard children, his grandsons were bastard children, and the cycle of curses on his bloodline continued. Remember that satan was trying to get to the seed of the woman in Genesis 3:15.

A curse gives authority to the devil to interfere with the will of God in mankind’s life. The bastard curse was satan’s primary tactic to accomplish this in Judah’s bloodline down to King David’s father, Jesse. By corrupting the bloodline, he could keep God’s children from developing a close relationship with Him, and try to spoil the seed of the woman from being born. He did not know that the seed of the woman, Jesus Christ, would have only the woman’s seed and not a human father’s seed. But nevertheless, satan’s strategy was to destroy the woman’s bloodline so thoroughly that it could not produce the seed necessary to defeat him as spoken by God in Genesis 3:14 and 15.22

In the next chapter, we will see how the bastard curse was used against the house of Jesse, from which all the Kings of Israel would come.

20Genesis 19:30-38

And Lot went up out of Zoar, and dwelt in the mountain, and his two daughters with him; for he feared to dwell in Zoar: and he dwelt in a cave, he and his two daughters.
And the firstborn said unto the younger, Our father is old, and there is not a man in the earth to come in unto us after the manner of all the earth:
Come, let us make our father drink wine, and we will lie with him, that we may preserve seed of our father.
And they made their father drink wine that night: and the firstborn went in, and lay with her father; and he perceived not when she lay down, nor when she arose.
And it came to pass on the morrow, that the firstborn said unto the younger, Behold, I lay yesternight with my father: let us make him drink wine this night also; and go thou in, and lie with him, that we may preserve seed of our father.
And they made their father drink wine that night also: and the younger arose, and lay with him; and he perceived not when she lay down, nor when she arose.
Thus were both the daughters of Lot with child by their father.
And the firstborn bare a son, and called his name Moab: the same is the father of the Moabites unto this day.
And the younger, she also bare a son, and called his name Benammi: the same is the father of the children of Ammon unto this day.

 

21Genesis 6:1-8
And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them,
That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.
And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.
There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.
And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.

And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.
But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD.

22Genesis 3:14 and 15
And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:
And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

Chapter 8 – The House of Jesse

Copyright © 2004 Christian Faith International Ministries. All
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About Michael Fackerell

The Christian faith is about Jesus. He came to save the lost. About Jesus Christ, Bible teaching, Testimonies, Salvation, Prayer, Faith, Networking.

Comments

  1. The curse of Deut 23:1-4 was removed in Isa 56:4-5

  2. Brain Ayres says:

    Were the parents of Jesus Christ married?

    • Glenis Goldsmith says:

      Hi Brain, thank you for your post. If you read the book of Matthew, Luke and some of John, tells us the parents of Jesus Christ, were very righteous people, choosen people of God to be Jesus’s parents. Mary was a virgin when she conceived Jesus, it was a supernatural conception, but when Joseph found out at first he had doubts about marry Mary until the Holy-Spirit revealed to him, she had not slept with any man and it was a supernatural conception. So Joseph still married her.
      I feel you are searching Brain. Are you a very new believer or are you searching and would like to know more about the Lord Jesus Christ – I would be glad to help you 🙂 God bless you in your search.

  3. I am an illegitimate child. (now a man)
    The versus are infact in the bible, also it says more.
    “The prolific brood of the adulterers will not take root
    Even if they do they will be uprooted with violent winds.
    I have observed this in my life. The verses are true in my life.

    The raising negative thoughts need to be controlled vigorously
    My friends don’t think like that about the same situations.

    The violent winds do come in every now and then.,
    in my life it is every 18months. Trust me it is violent, sudden and uproots.

    In the work place, how ever nice and friendly I am, I always end up on my own, people instinctively have a mistrust even though I am well liked and very capable, even my wife says that “there is a nagging feeling of mistrust, I cant explain why”

    By the way the verses regarding the basters are not found in all the versions of the bible, I have one an old edition, a hand down from my grandma, it has.

    Thank you for your time.

  4. You are completely ignorant in your “Bastard’s Curse” theory. The scripture in Deut. refers to a mamzer. A mamzer is a child born of incest or the product of relations between a jewish man and heathen women. HOW DARE YOU HEAP CONDEMNATION on children conceived out of wedlock with YOUR FALSE DOCTRINE of the bastard’s curse. YOU ABUSE AND MISUSE the scriptures to FALSELY SHAME people through your ignorance!! STUDY AND SHOW THYSELF APPROVED!!!

  5. lookinforacity says:

    Deu 23:2-4
    2) A bastard shall not enter into the congregation of the LORD; even to his tenth generation shall he not enter into the congregation of the LORD.

    3) An Ammonite or Moabite shall not enter into the congregation of the LORD; even to their tenth generation shall they not enter into the congregation of the LORD for ever:
    4) (BECAUSE), – – they met you not with bread and with water in the way, when ye came forth out of Egypt; and because they hired against thee Balaam the son of Beor of Pethor of Mesopotamia, to curse thee.

    While it is true, the verses in Deut. 23 do say
    1) (“A BASTARD SHALL NOT ENTER INTO THE CONGREGATION OF THE LORD);
    2) (AN AMMONITE OR MOABITE SHALL NOT ENTER INTO THE CONGREGATION OF THE LORD”);
    3) The congregation of the Lord, are the people counted as Descendants of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.
    It does not say the Ammonite or the Moabite cannot enter because they are bastards, but (BECAUSE) they did not meet the Jews when they came out of Egypt.

    Lets take a close look at the relation of the Ammonites and the Moabites to the Nation of Israel.

    1) Lot was a Nephew of Abraham.
    2) Abraham became the father of the Jews by promise from God.
    3) Jacob and his Descendants went to Egypt seeking refuge, during the great famine.
    4) The Descendants of Lot, even though they were related to Jacob, they were not counted as part of the Children of Israel, which went into Egypt
    .

    Exo 1:1-5
    1) Now these are the names of the children of Israel, which came into Egypt; every man and his household came with Jacob.
    2) Reuben, Simeon, Levi, and Judah,
    3) Issachar, Zebulun, and Benjamin,
    4) Dan, and Naphtali, Gad, and Asher.
    5) And all the souls that came out of the loins of Jacob were seventy souls: for Joseph was in Egypt already.

    6) The Descendants of Lot, even though they were Bastards, were not counted as Descendants of Jacob, a son of Israel (Isaac) a son of Abraham, Therefore they were not JEWS.

    The laws given in Deut. 23, therefore do not pertain to the Descendants of Lot.
    The Ammonite or the Moabite could not enter the congregation because they did not help the Jews.

    The so called “BASTARDS CURSE,” was only for the Jews.
    It did not apply to the Ammonites, and Moabites, and it doesn’t apply to anyone else that is a Bastard.

    This is the definition of curse.
    CURSE:
    1) the expression of a wish that misfortune, evil, doom, etc., befall a person, group, etc.
    2) an evil that has been invoked upon one.
    3) to wish or invoke evil, calamity, injury, or destruction upon.
    4) something that brings or causes great trouble or harm
    ……..Dictionary.com

    It does not appear as though what is being called a curse, is in actuality, a curse.

    • Holyroller_11 says:

      I think its about time for me to say goodbye, I have met some great people here,and I hope some have been helped,God Bless

      • lookingforhope2011 says:

        Don’t leave brother. I need you. And so do a lot of others on here. We need strong brothers like you

      • Timothy Luke says:

        Joe, Why would you feel the need to say goodbye? It would be nice if you wouldn't put the blood of people on the hands of those you disagree with, but not agreeing with you on this point is no reason to tuck your tail. We have a whole body of scripture to work with, and many differing views. Let's state our cases in the clearest Biblical terms and discuss them as brothers and sisters (who sometimes squabble) but always come together around what we do agree upon. Of course, you have intimated that perhaps you wonder if I am a Christian, and if that is the case, and I am a moderator here, you perhaps wonder if Michael is too. If your disagreement is such that you believe this site is not Christian, then by all means go in peace.

        • Holyroller_11 says:

          I DON;T RUN, What I say is not an opinion, I speak facts, but 2 can’t walk together unless they agree, I stand on old time Holiness, Period.as far as running, I am praying about having my own site, teaching of the old paths,the right ones, good day

          • I believe if Joe wants to leave than he has every right. I for one have talked with Joe & I Love our dear Brother. If Joe believes that the Good lord wants him to start his own site. Then who am I to Argue. I would like to.see him fullfill. This desire. I see that the discussion became too heated. I feel instead of agreeing And tAlking in A loving manner things got out of controll. I hope Joe doesn’t stop being a member & still has his own site as well. I just Ask for all the members edify eachother & if you must chastise. Do so as God would. For some by not doing so have broken others trust in otther believers. I Ask you all to Please Lay Down your right in choosing whom you like for you Are commanded to Love. And you may find that those you don’t always agree with may be in heaven with you. We should learn to Love those differences. And I will also ask that we come together and confess our inability to chastize eachother without belittling one another. For who is really hurt here brothers & sisters? Jesus. That’s who. Forgive us father God for our all too Human flesh & pride For we have caused stumbling with our quarrels. I ask dear father that you place a desire in each of us not to offend nor to belittle others for as believers we are told to Love eachother. May you unite us in prayers dear father for we sojourn this fallen world together & seek you and your holiness each day. Protect us father from the enemy sending wolves in amongst us. I ask you to protect us from the enemies darts And keep us hidden in the shadow of your wings. In christ Jesus I pray. Holy spirit you are welcome in our hearts & minds & may you guide our steps & words daily. Love you fellow sister in Christ Jesus. Annette. Amen

          • lookingforhope2011 says:

            We all love Jesus. I just want to learn. And I have found encouragement on this site. If I have offended anyone I apologize. Greg

          • I just want ust to remember that lovingkindness & Self Control & Long Sufferring are fruit of our Holy Spirit. And arrogance is Not. I also appologze if offense has been taken. Your sis in Christ Jesus. Annette

          • Timothy Luke says:

            You are right. While I was at work I realized I should not have used the term "tuck your tail". Please accept my apologies. I implied an attitude to you that I had no right to imply. I have been upset with you after reading your post to a sister regarding pagan origins of Christmas. I felt you belittled her and accused her, and I should have addressed it there… instead, I have modelled that behavior back to you. I was wrong, as that was a form of retaliation.

          • Were you apologizing to joe (HR11)? For I know that if you highlight his name & go to the lower part of his page; you can send him a message. I apreciate the fact that you confessed. I believe that he would to. I don’t think either of you meant to hurt the other. Yet with many believers I find that when they discuss a view that one or both become very passionate and then instead of keeping self control & kind. That they become stuborn & blunt. Neither one longsuffering the others view. I have been lifting you both up in prayer. Also I finD that instead of discussing a pov that many make statements of almost comeplete absoluteness instead of listening patiently to the others view and researching it. They come into the discussion with a statement and that makes growth & learning hard for others. Stubourness is a spirit of witchcraft & we don’t want that. We want to grow in wisdom & knowledge of our Lord & savior Jesus Christ. Love your sis in Christ Jesus, Annette

          • Timothy Luke says:

            Thanks Annette, I appreciate your spirit. Because I sinned publicly, I needed to confess publicly. I trust he will be seeing this, but if I do not see him on the boards in a few days, I will take your advice and privately send it, just to be sure he gets it. Tim

            PS

            "though I know all mysteries and have all knowledge, yet have not charity, it profits me nothing…." I don't think anyone of us wants to be on the wrong side of that verse.

          • Holyroller_11 says:

            Been praying mostly all day today,and in church tonight til 10,30,I want to say first sis(Annette)has a heart like Jesus, full of love, a lost art these days, anyway,I want to tell you ,your my brother in God,and I did not come here to cause confusion,nor will I, sometimes I get into very deep places in my words,(meat)and expect everyone to know what I mean automaticly. but for what its worth,there is no hard feeling on my part. and I’m sorry for any grief towards you or anyone. I get heated when confusion is here on this site,because God is not the author of it.and I am very picky over my Lord’s business.and I tell it strong.sorry thats just me. there are some men and women on this site,after God’s own heart,and thats great. I will check in from time to time,but for now I am praying to see what God’s wants me to do.as I said,my post are real,and I came here to share and hope others will have the same and greater.there is no need to say anything to me about our disagreement,like sis says,but she is an exsample of true religion,I have learned much from her kind spirit,be blessed of God, H.R(joe)

          • Holyroller_11 says:

            Blessed are the peacemakers,for they shall see God

  6. Matthew333 says:

    This is a good blog. All these people leaving comments are really shallow in insight. Teach On brother!

    • I am a foreign expat here in the middle east. Blogs such as this one are a fountain of life for people like me in a place where the Holy Bible is banned.

      This is a theologically sound blog with scriptural defenses that many people, even Christians may find offensive, descriminatory, and racist in nature – but I must say that these are GOD’s WORDS, old or new testament – these are in total GOD’s WORDS – the truth. But then it is also a fact and is ascertained by the Bible itself that the Truth shall set us free. The Bastard Curse – is a curse like any other and is a result of the Adam’s Curse. There is a way out and that way is no other than Christ – who bore the curse and conquered the curse on the Cross, He conquered death – the punishment for All curses resulting from Adam’s original sin. He is the only way out.
      I live in an environment which is a result of the bastard curse – i see these arabs and muslims still bear that curse – the curse of slavery – enslaved by their laws, they do not experience the freedom we experience – the freedom in Christ.

      • I really hope this site will be a source of encouragement to you wherever you are out there in the Middle East. I have been there before, and I while I am sure I don't understand it as well as yourself, I believe what you are saying is true.

        That said, the Arabs I got to know personally were very warm people and boy they make great food! I hope that many many will come to Christ, because when they do, they are really wonderful people even more so!

      • RoyalFire says:

        Brother, thank you for sharing….I would be so interested in a blog on this site from you from time to time where you could share some of the things that are going on over there….from your own perspective as a Christian. May the Lord Dispatch His Angels to protect you and your family.

        Blessings,

        RoyalFire

    • RoyalFire says:

      This is indeed a Scriptural Teaching. Please those of you who are uncomfortable or even completely negate this teaching, look up these scriptures! Everything, everything everthing that God does has a purpose and a reason…..and God does provide a way out through Jesus Christ, but this does not negate the onset of this curse…it is true – it is real and satan wants people to walk away not believing in this. We must open our eyes to the entire Truth of God’s Word.

      Blessings,

      RoyalFire

      • Holyroller_11 says:

        has anyone ever had a real experence with the HolyGhost? I often wonder when I hear so much about all this spooks and gobblins, these things are not biblical! and a child of God can walk through hell fire,and 10000000 demons a day and come out without the smell of smoke.please !!! be a soul winner not a sower of discord Jesus came to reunite all man to God,whosoever will, ALL HAVE COME SHORT, none are righteous, not one,except he repent,NO man will see God !

        • I met him while I was in Romania and more than most, he was very effective in ministering healing to people.

          So if you are consistently getting folk healed and saved, don't waste time looking at what others are saying – keep going. But this is for people who may be wondering what is holding them back – words from a very experienced man of God who has planted quite a few churches.

           

           

      • Holyroller_11 says:

        by teaching the nonsense of curses on saints,is trying to say the blood of Jesus Christ is not able to make a new creature of everyone regardless of how they lived before redemption, all this does is try to belittle the sacrifice at the cross.now by saying curses of any type,after salvation by the blood,is calling JESUS CHRIST a lier.and a sower of discord,by the way is 1 of the 7 things God HATES.and will cause the removal of names from the book of life. CAUTION is needed to whom it may concern.

        • Timothy Luke says:

          Can you not see that the church carries many of what the Bible calls curses in Deuteronomy 28? Get your head out of the air and your theological idealogy and deal with real life. Many have been set free from some dark forces that have bound them, while addressing the bastard's curse and others. They were Christians when they sought deliverance and they were on fire Christians when they left the sessions. Your experience with the Holy Spirit is not the template for all Christians, so PLEASE stop slamming fellow Christians who do not hold to your experience as the fullness of the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

          • lookingforhope2011 says:

            So what I understand from all this we can come to the cross and be forgiven from all our sins. Live our life for God. But still be under some generational curse? Why if we have no idea what has happened in our past generations?

          • Timothy Luke says:

            My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge… When someone's life is full of the identifying marks of a curse, even though they have repented, believed and been baptized, then they may wish to look a little deeper and see where the Lord leads. To say Christians cannot have a curse is to say that many Christians who indeed suffer demonic interference (after receiving Christ) are not Christian – that is a greater judgment, in my estimation. Saying one has a curse, does not place a curse on them, it acknowledges something they have struggled against for years and decades, perhaps. It also gets on with setting them free. You may have been set free upon hearing the Word. "He sent His Word and healed them." Others receive Christ, but still must overcome through "resist the devil and he will flee from you."  Others still need deliverance ministry, as the boy with epilepsy whose father was told, 'this kind comes out only with prayer and fasting."

            I hope this helps.

            I was a Christian. I was bound under curses. I had to acknowledge that before God and deal with it before we were set free. I know what I am talking about. You are dealing with theory. I am dealing with experience that differs from yours.

          • Holyroller_11 says:

            I will end it here as far as I’m concerned,I have been in this walk for 28 years ,I have fasted more days than a few seeking God and finding him,I still see miracles,and fell the power,as for you and your curses and trees,you are wrong and this is all I can say,the confusion you cause with this jewish priest old testiment stuff.is between you and Jesus Christ,the blood is on your hands for those you decieve,My hands are clean. good day

          • Timothy Luke says:

            You err… if they are free, then why are they seeking freedom? So, you are indeed saying that if a Christian has demonic powers at work in their lives, they are not Christians, but they need salvation. Do you find it helpful to address people who have repented and have been baptised and have a curse by starting out with… "you are not a Christian"? "You need salvation"?  And, if after they have repented and believed and been baptised, and have addictions to alcohol, tobacco, sex, stealing, or suffer demonic torment, what do you propose to do to bring them to salvation? Fast and pray for days and weeks and baptise them again?

            You claim I am putting a burden on them. But the fact is, we are speaking to people who are coming WITH a burden, and we are ministers to release them from that burden….

             

            This topic appears to be greater than your paradigm will allow.

          • Holyroller_11 says:

            how does anyone get the HolyGhost and bypass the cleaning of the HolyGhost (santification) this is wrong and can;t be,the addictions must be removed before the baptizm,the more you say the more I question,new wine(HolyGhost) will NOT dwell in an unclean temple.in old bottles(heart) without sanctification of the Spirit of God it is impossible to have the INDWELLING. this is penticostal,Westley,Martin Luther,Church of God,Assembly of God ,and me, HR, anyone claiming to be FILLED with the Spirit,Must be sanctified,other wise the Spirit may be UPON them,but not in them.this is the way it is,not opinion FACT.maybe you confuse spirits for sin nature,I don’t know but your WRONG ,I can type out the old penti.manual or Luther,or I have 1899 book of D.L Moody,maybe you will believe them better than me.Igot mine,I don’t know about your,and I have witnesses by the way demonic spirits in us and around us are 2 different things,your still trying to change what I say to win an arguement even if your wrong, I said bondage of inward things that CONTROL a believer has not recieved sanctification yet, therefore he cannot be INFILLED !

          • Timothy Luke says:

            The new wine analogy was applied to mindsets. When a person has his mind set on tradition, the new revelation has a detrimental effect. Jesus was speaking of preaching the gospel, not infilling of Holy Spirit. You are applying an analogy given for one condition as a truth used to define the how something else works, and the order in which it works.

            I do not see that I am changing what you say. Can you give me an example of that? Your logic seems circular to me. Thank you for placing the blood of deceived Christians on my hands. I do not receive it. That is a curse you have spoken over me because you do not agree with what I am saying.  Why not just call fire down from heaven? What spirit is that of?

            To answer your question:

            "how does anyone get the HolyGhost and bypass the cleaning of the HolyGhost"

            The Holy Spirit is the cleansing agent. How does one clean a uric acid stained urinal without putting cleaner in it? So, if I clean the urinal, only then I can apply toilet cleaner? Sounds messed up to me.

            It takes time and effort, even with bowl cleaner.
            Why are Christians told to resist the devil, if he has zero power against them? Why are they told to be aware of his wiles, lest he gain advantage? Why is Timothy told to minister to the church in 2 Tim 2:23-25, so that God perchance might grant repentance to the acknowledging of the truth so they might escape themselves from the snare of the devil? Why does Paul admonish the church, who are bought with the blood of Jesus, to not serve sin any longer?
            When you make a simple statement that the blood of Jesus cleanses us of everything, including curses, you are ignoring, or negating, that Christians in the midst of their walk, may commit sin and, as per Ephesians 4:26, give place to the devil, and therefore need deliverance, as per 2 Tim 2, even though they are Christians.

          • Holyroller_11 says:

            if you were bound then you were seeking salvation,but haven;t found it until you were free, whom the Son sets free,is ——————free INDEED why you try to put the burden back on the shoulders of saints after they were set free is a mystery to many

          • lookingforhope2011 says:

            Read chapter ten of this study

          • Timothy Luke says:

            Will do. Haven't read chapter 7 yet. Just responding to statements that I feel lack merit. Thanks Jim.

          • lookingforhope2011 says:

            I think chapter 10 will clear up most of the posts on here

          • lookinforacity says:

            Hi Greg

            My post to this thread has nothing to do with anything anyone else has written, except the Blog itself.
            I have just looked at chapter 10, I stand by my post.
            There is no Bastard curse, on the grounds I have stated.

            1) The so called curse, only applied to the Jews.
            2) The so called curse, does not fit the definition of what a curse actually is.

            You could call this whole thing an exclusion, or even an excommunication but you can’t call it a curse.

            Be Blessed
            JIM

          • Timothy Luke says:

            My understanding on this is that being excluded from fellowship with the people of the promise, is a curse. There are people who go through life never feeling a part of the body of Christ, though they have gone to church all their lives. When the "bastard's curse", that you do not believe in as a curse, has been addressed as a curse, these people find that invisible barrier to be removed. This is why people teach on the bastard's curse and minister to it. If you do not believe, please do not talk someone out of their belief.

            On the practical end, how many people, who feel fully in fellowship, seek out a cure for not being in fellowship? To say this puts a burden on a person is not true. A person with no burden does not seek release from a burden, and no one seeks them out to say 'you have a burden and I need to release you from it.' Yet, that accusation has flown about in this discussion (not necessarily by you, Greg and Jim). If there are comments on chapter 10, lets post them under chapter 10, so we can keep it together there. Thanks, Tim

          • lookingforhope2011 says:

            I mentioned reading chapter 10 because I felt some of the posts being put under chapter 7 would of been addressed had chapter 10 been read. And I could see there was difference of opinions being tossed around. In chapter 10 been you see that Jesus took all our infirmities and transgressions and curses to the cross and nailed them there. I for one think there are a great group of believers on this site. We need to ban together and unite. There have been some very encouraging people I have met on here. I think all mean well. Instead of arguing we should ban together and search out the parts we disagree on and come together as why we disagree and find scriptural solutions to the problems. Joe is a dear brother to me and it hurts my heart that he would not want to come back to this site. I need his testimonies to build my own faith and the testimony of many other people who get on here and find victory in Jesus. If I have offended anyone I do apologize. I just want to learn. And I want to learn the Truth. There are able believers on here that can do that. We may not see each other face to face but someday we shall. And in that day there wont be any more tears. No more pain. For now I just want to live right and make My Heavenly Father proud of me. And He welcomes me saying well done! Come on in and sit down. Supper is ready! Be blessed ya’ll. Greg.

          • bornagainbytheblood says:

            The Bible declares that rooted obstacles in a child of God’s life are “strongholds”; this is not referring to sin, for you cannot be a child of God when knowingly sinning. When people get saved, they immediately stop all their willful sinning because the blood of Jesus is flowing in their souls; they may stumble when they’re babes, but as they grow in the ways of holiness and righteousness, they wax strong in the Spirit.

            If people are bound with “curses”, then they need the blood of Jesus flowing in their souls through a real blood-bought born again experience. A curse cannot be put on a real child of God, for the blood of the Lamb protects them, so there’s no need to fear those in voodoo and witchcraft.

            If people are bound with addictions, then they need the unclean spirits cast out. Legion had at least 2000 devils that bound him, but he immediately became sane after Jesus cast them out. Devil possession is very common with drug addicts and alcoholics, and that’s why they need deliverance from those foul devils.

          • lookinforacity says:

            Hi Stephen

            When you say.
            “The Bible declares that rooted obstacles in a child of God’s life are “strongholds”;”

            You make reference to some supposed scripture, and if the Bible so clearly declares there are these rooted obstacles “strongholds,” where does it say it?
            In other words, you have no basis for making such a statement.

            Just for clarification purposes, the guys name wasn’t Legion, the demons name was Legion.

            Be Blessed
            JIM

          • bornagainbytheblood says:

            To JIM – There’s no need for me to address your first statement. With regard to Legion, while that was not his actual name, that is who I referred to him as. Notwithstanding, was he not immediately set free?

            Mark 16:17 – And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; …

          • lookinforacity says:

            Hi Stephen

            Alright, give me a hint, are you using the KJV, NIV, NASV have these declarations been made in the Old or New Testament?
            Do I look up (rooted obstacles, or strongholds).

            Be Blessed
            JIM

          • Timothy Luke says:

            Why? Because perhaps God needs us to acknowledge the sin specifically so we can come out of agreement with it totally, so our repentance is genuine and sincere in all specific points the Lord had issues with. When someone says, “I’m sorry for all the wrong I did,” is that as effective to your heart as if they break it down and acknowledge the individual ways they hurt you and promise to not do them again?

          • Holyroller_11 says:

            the blood washes away ALL sin !! the problem is people can;t seem to accept this,they still want to bind up the saints of God with confusion. why I don;t know, but the reason people are not getting through in prayer as in early years, 1st they just don’t spend time in prayer, 2nd don’t respect God’s house , 3rd, we are in the closing of the gentile days,since 1967,when Jerusalem was no longer in the hands of the gentiles,God’s Spirit has been moving more toward the east, America has helped by pushing God away on a large scale. their is no secret spirits keeping the church down, we do it our selves by how we live. The last generation has more to do with coldness in the church than many realize. satan has little time to do as much confusion and damage as he can. The blood of Christ takes away All sin,curses,and such, Nothing on earth or in heaven is more powerful than Jesus and his blood sacrifice, What is the matter with God’s people who put stubbling blocks in front of their own brothers and sisters, THESE are the reasons We don’t see what the early church saw,but even then it took 10 days for the apostals to break through to God.satan has God’s people chasing after their own tails, If you want to hear from God,then seek him.

          • Holyroller_11 says:

            what does my experience with the HolyGhost have to do with curses, but I wish everyone had at least 1, I don;t hold the patent on it,its for who so ever will. as for the truth. whom the Son sets free is FREE INDEED, even a child knows the way.Its the simple that confound the wise,

      • Holyroller_11 says:

        sounds like voodoo, WHOM THE SON SETS FREE IS FREE INDEED,

        • lookingforhope2011 says:

          The way I understand it is that Jesus came and set us free and offered us eternal life. I didn’t see any fine print anywhere that said unless your under a generational curse. Now I know pastor Larry Huch had a huge teaching on breaking generational curses a few years ago. And also a huge teaching on the seven places Jesus shed His blood on the way to the cross. But even with all that. Wasn’t the cross the end of any power satan had on the saints?. So therefore all curses were done? Jesus took the keys to the kingdom back and gained victory over death hell and the grave! At the name of Jesus every knee shall bow and every tongue confess He is Lord. By His stripes we are healed and delivered!. So if curses can still exist in the new covenant in a blood bought child of God. I stand corrected.

  7. I’ve read about the bastard child.

    Can anyone comment on a ‘bastard family’? This is a man or woman who does not wait on God (His timing) but choses his or her own spouse, may be just on a physical basis, and starts a family?

    • warrior daughter says:

      This is a false teaching…A bastard comes about from a union that is not from marriage….
      I do not know who is promoting this teaching but I am certain that it is hurting families and God does not intend to inflict harm on anyone….
      Incidently if someone is born out of wedlock, God still loves them just as much as those born through marriage and He wants the best for them…All the promises in the Bible are for them too…

      • Holyroller_11 says:

        I agree with warrior daughter,this is no where close to Bible, satan sets up late coming up with stupid stuff like this,the shame is people fall for it without thinking.

      • Timothy Luke says:

        <p>That is the whole point, sister. God does love everyone, but the devil has an inroad of accusation and oppression, and he uses it until addressed directly many times.</p>

    • warrior daughter says:

      I have gone away for a few hours and thought more on this teaching…Nowhere in the Bible will you find such a teaching…If you can find it please show me…Also this kind of teaching would give a person a reason to divorce and I think that is the real reason behind it…

      Again I cannot express that anyone who is born and their parents were not married, does not make them a a hated person from God…He loves them more than anyone here on earth can and He desires the best for them too….There are more and more people that carry the name of bastard and God wants to change that to Child of God…..

      • I believe after reading this teaching that you could connect why Satan would want to destroy God’s seed in the OT. One has to question why Mary above all women was chosen. What made her special among women at the time? Obviously her bloodline would play a part in begin chosen as the mother of Jesus. With that said, I trust in the sacrifice that our Lord made on our behalf cancelled out any and all “bastard curse”. The reason for Jesus Crucifixion and Resurrection was to free us from our bondage to sin. If this curse wasn’t broken by Jesus then we as Christians are stating that the devil is wining the war. Satan may still attack Christians in the same way throughout the years but the means of destroying and riding ourselves of sin was changed when Jesus died for all of us. I believe that even if I was a bastard child, if I seek Jesus and receive Him as my Lord and Savior then I will be forgiven of all my past transgressions. That does not mean that I do not have to deal with generational sins that happen to affect me…..because we all reap what we sow……..but it does mean that I will have God on my side. Blessings to All.

  8. Joe Morales says:

    There’s a group out of Virginia that teach that the bastard curse comes upon the children of racially mixed marriage… They consider mixed (racial) marriage a sin, and that the bastard curse must be broken off of bi-racial children, even if the parents were Christians and the children were concieved in wedlock. What do you think about this?

    • There’s no biblical ground for such things. Its just racism and foolishness.

    • My first thoughts from the heart are this: God sees everyone through the eyes of Divine love. (because He IS love)

      As far as marriages, God does not see as a man sees. He said His thoughts are higher than our thoughts and His ways are higher than our ways.

      I don’t know how to say this, but as far as marriage, God does NOT see skin color between two people, and He does NOT see age between two people who love each other. There is not one scripture to substantiate those views. Those are the thoughts and prejudices of man. The Bible plainly tells us that God looks past the skin, past the age and straight into the HEART. Again, He looks upon the heart not the age, and not the color of the skin.

      If there is such thing as this curse you spoke of it is of man, and certainly not of our heavenly Father.

    • Holyroller_11 says:

      mixed marrage with children involved,causes enough complications without bull like this

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