Andrew Strom’s recent warning about Rick Joyner, Todd Bentley and others, and the problems with mixing truth and error

While I am on public record as one who warned people about Todd Bentley well before the much publicized scandal of adultery, I believe this latest email of Andrew Strom (see below) is going to widen the split in the charismatic movement and cause Christians to REJECT each other when God has accepted them.

If you can read the story of Rolland and Heidi Baker and then agree with the statement made by Andrew Strom “it is simply not worth having ANY involvement with them due to the tainted anointing that they endorse or minister in themselves” – then I think you have misunderstood the heart of our God.

You will know Christians by their LOVE, and if the accounts of the Bakers’ ministry are at all true, it would be hard to argue that they do not set an example in this area, and in the area of faith also. GOD is clearly at work through them in Mozambique. Should we have nothing to do with them because they have been to Toronto?

Can we really say that the presence of false things at Toronto means that everything that happened there was devoid of the work of the true Holy Spirit? See, its another mixture and confusion there too.

Bill Johnson might be wrong about Bentley, but he has modelled well the faith for biblical healing evangelism at a grass roots level like few have in the western world. Should we now discard his ministry and have nothing to do with it?

Are there any supernatural signs left in Andrew Strom’s ministry today? Though he talks in tongues, is there any evidence of any of the signs of a believer mentioned Mark 16:17-20? There may well be, but I’ve never seen it when I’ve heard him minister the Word of God. Of course, when he preaches people will feel that they have missed the mark, and that’s good. That happens when non charismatics preach also, actually. I think exhortations towards holiness are very important, but they are not the same thing as evangelism.

Andrew Strom’s post, like so many things in the Body of Christ today, contains a mixture of truth and error. God hates these mixtures. They will cause some to see the good and so accept the evil mixed in, while others will see the evil and therefore reject the good therein. This applies both to Andrew Strom’s position and some of the ministries he condemns.

Come on Andrew. If your heart is purer and your discernment is better than all the others, and you are indeed qualified to slam lots of highly fruitful ministries, please show us a demonstration of what SHOULD be done.

HERE IS THE WARNING FROM ANDREW STROM

KUNDALINI WARNING – Urgent
-by Andrew Strom.

I just saw the video of Rick Joyner announcing that Todd Bentley
is back ministering every night at Morningstar in North Carolina
and now they have so-called “revival” manifestations eerily similar
to Lakeland. They also announced that they are streaming these
big meetings every night on their new TV channel – and they are
greatly promoting the whole thing.

Now I am a tongues-speaking Pentecostal myself – but can I ask
a simple question here please? What kind of “spirit” was it
operating in the Lakeland revival – when the leader and main focal-
point of the meetings (Todd Bentley) was having an adulterous
affair behind the scenes? Was it truly the “Holy” Spirit that was
anointing something so sensual and unholy? And now that Todd
divorced his wife and married his mistress – are we supposed to
welcome him back and this “anointing” with him? What is going
on here? Rick Joyner has been warned very specifically by high-
level ministries not to do what he is doing now – bringing Todd
Bentley back into the limelight. And yet it seems he does not
care. Apparently the “manifestations” are all that matter.

So what exactly are these ‘manifestations’ if they are seemingly
at home in such an unholy environment? Are they from God at
all? (I am talking here about the violent “jerking”, uncontrollable
laughter, bodily contortions, drunkenness, ‘portals’, strange “angel”
encounters, etc.) Why do we not see such an ‘anointing’ in the
Bible? Why aren’t Jesus or the apostles promoting these
manifestations if they really are true Revival? Why instead do we
see these things all the way through the New Age and Hinduism,
etc? Do we not realize that many false religions have their own
version of “laying on of hands” that results in these very types of
manifestations? This ‘spirit’ is not in the Bible – but it is all the
way through Kundalini-type Hinduism! Don’t you think this should
alarm us?

WHAT is KUNDALINI?

If you search for Kundalini and Shakti on the Internet, you will find
that multitudes of people in the New Age and Eastern religions
still experience these powerful manifestations. Often this is with
the help of a Guru, who touches them on the forehead so that
they can experience a “Kundalini Awakening”.

As researcher Robert Walker wrote in 1995:
“The meetings which mystic Hindu gurus hold are called ‘Darshan’.
At these meetings devotees go forward to receive spiritual experience
from a touch by the open palm of the hand, often to the forehead,
by the guru in what is known as the Shakti Pat or divine touch.
The raising of the spiritual experience is called raising Kundalini…
After a period when the devotee has reached a certain spiritual
elevation they begin to shake, jerk, or hop or squirm uncontrollably,
sometimes breaking into uncontrolled animal noises or laughter
as they reach an ecstatic high. These manifestations are called
‘Kriyas’. Devotees sometimes roar like lions and show all kinds
of physical signs during this period. Often devotees move on to
higher states of spiritual consciousness and become inert
physically and appear to slip into an unconsciousness…”

And as the guru Shri Yogãnandji Mahãrãja wrote:
“When Your body begins trembling, hair stands on roots, you laugh
or begin to weep without your wishing, your tongue begins to utter
deformed sounds, you are filled with fear or see frightening visions…
the Kundalini Shakti has become active.”

In China there is a popular Kundalini-type movement called ‘Qigong’.
When a Chinese Qigong spiritual master spoke in the USA in
1991, the San Francisco Chronicle reported that many in the crowd
began to experience “spontaneous movements”. The master told
his audience, “Those who are sensitive might start having some
strong physical sensations – or start laughing or crying. Don’t worry.
This is quite normal.”

When you see videos of these “kriyas” or other Kundalini-type
manifestations, you would often swear that you are watching a
modern “Impartation”-type church meeting. (And I say this as
someone who believes strongly in the gifts of the Holy Spirit. I just
don’t believe in “alien” anointings infiltrating the Body of Christ!
There is a big difference between Kundalini and the real Holy Spirit).

Since 1993-4, I believe a foreign spirit has been allowed to invade
the church – first through Rodney Howard-Browne’s ministry – then
Toronto, then the Prophetic movement (which I was part of at the
time) and on into Lakeland and many other ministries and
movements. I urge people now to “test the spirits” just as we are
commanded to in Scripture. Do not let just anyone lay hands on
you. This is a powerful spirit and it has the backing of a lot of
big-name ministries. In fact, these men and women are the very
ones responsible for allowing it to spread right through the body
of Christ. And one day they will be answerable to God for doing so.

We are specifically warned in the Bible that the Last Days will be
a time of “seducing spirits,” false prophets, ‘lying signs and
wonders,’ and that we always need to watch for “angels of light”
masquerading as the real thing. Why does the modern church
not take these warnings seriously? Aren’t we living in the very
days that the Bible warns about?

Right now I need to do something that I have never done in such
a way before. I have never before published a list of ministries or
movements to watch out for. But this time I have to. This sickness
has gone on long enough. I urge you to cut yourself off from
the following ministries and their tainted “anointings” my friends.
Even though some of these people say “good things” at times, it
is simply not worth having any involvement with them due to the
tainted anointing that they endorse or minister in themselves. Here
is the list-

(1) Todd Bentley.
(2) Rodney Howard Browne – the so-called “Holy Ghost Bartender.”
(2) Rick Joyner or anyone connected with Morningstar Ministries.
(3) John Arnott & any connected with TACF (The “Toronto Blessing”).
(4) Peter Wagner of the ‘New Apostolic Reformation’ who claims
to be head of a worldwide network of ‘apostles’ – who publicly
endorsed Lakeland and will soon preach at Toronto TACF alongside
other “false anointing” advocates.
(5) Mike Bickle and IHOP Kansas City (-I lived nearby for over
two years – and know how much they are into all this stuff. Mike
Bickle promotes it in his book).
(6) Bob Jones – the Kansas City prophet whose ministry is utterly
tainted by it all.
(7) Patricia King and anyone else from ‘Extreme Prophetic.’
(8) John Crowder & anyone connected with “Sloshfest.”
(9) Bill Johnson of Bethel church, Redding – who says some good
things but publicly endorsed Lakeland and promotes the “false
anointing” very strongly behind the scenes.
(10) Heidi & Rolland Baker of IRIS Ministries – who do good work
amongst the poor in Mozambique – but who have also carried
and promoted this tainted anointing for years.
(11) Randy Clark, Wes & Stacey Campbell, and other key
figures from the “Toronto blessing.”
(12) The Elijah List – and almost anyone featured on it.

Of course there are a huge number of lesser-known preachers
and ministries who carry or endorse this Kundalini-type “anointing”
around the world. But I have concentrated here on the most
influential that I know of. It really is an enormous issue in the
church. I urge anyone who is a supporter of any of the above
ministries to really check them out thoroughly. If you find (as I have)
that they carry or endorse this false Kundalini spirit in the church,
then please stop supporting them in any way – and whatever you
do, don’t let them “lay hands” on you!

I am putting everything on the line to be “naming names” like this.
But I believe it is that serious. How on earth did we get to the point
where “kriyas” just like Hinduism are spreading through the church?

Please forward this email to everyone you know, blogs and boards,
etc. These people are trying to “relaunch” this whole thing right
now. Help us get this warning out. To see a video showing “kriyas”
and other Kundalini-type manifestations, please click on the
Youtube links below-

Please send feedback on this article to- [email protected]

God bless you all!

Andrew Strom.

What do YOU think?

comments

About Michael Fackerell

The Christian faith is about Jesus. He came to save the lost. About Jesus Christ, Bible teaching, Testimonies, Salvation, Prayer, Faith, Networking.

Comments

  1. cerinaaaa says:

    I just saw the video of Rick Joyner announcing that Todd Bentley is back ministering every night at Morningstar in North Carolina and now they have so-called “revival” manifestations eerily similar to Lakeland.

    They also announced that they are streaming these big meetings every night on their new TV channel – and they are greatly promoting the whole thing.

    Now I am a tongues-speaking Pentecostal myself – but can I ask a simple question here please?

    What kind of “spirit” was it operating in the Lakeland revival – when the leader and main focal-point of the meetings (Todd Bentley) was having an adulterous affair behind the scenes? Was it truly the “Holy” Spirit that was anointing something so sensual and unholy?

    And now that Todd divorced his wife and married his mistress – are we supposed to welcome him back and this “anointing” with him? What is going on here?

    Rick Joyner has been warned very specifically by high-level ministries not to do what he is doing now -bringing Todd Bentley back into the limelight. And yet it seems he does not care.

    Apparently the “manifestations” are all that matter.

    So what exactly are these ‘manifestations’ if they are seemingly at home in such an unholy environment? Are they from God at all? (I am talking here about the violent “jerking”, uncontrollable laughter, bodily contortions, drunkenness, ‘portals’, strange “angel” encounters, etc.)

    Why do we not see such an ‘anointing’ in the Bible? Why aren’t Jesus or the apostles promoting these manifestations if they really are true Revival? Why instead do we see these things all the way through New Age and Hinduism, etc?

    Do we not realize that many false religions have their own version of “laying on of hands” that results in these very types of manifestations?

    This ‘spirit’ is not in the Bible – but it is (found) all the way through Kundalini-type Hinduism. Don’t you think this should alarm us?

    • I am very very doubtful concerning this kind of ministry. The spirit that moves in these meetings doesn't promote biblical things as much as weird and wonderful things. And this kind of anointing seems to co-exist really easily with unholy living and unholy practices. In the last few years there are plenty of signs that Rick Joyner has entered into deception. What a pity this is.

      • warrior daughter says:

        I witnessed first hand the kundalini spirit in my former AOG church…It was the reason I left the church & sought another. This church has decreased in attendance by 2/3.

        The kundalini spirit was brought in by some friends {pastor of another church & some of his congregats) of my former pastor who had gone to Lakeland for the “the anointing”. They had watched the meetings on television for several weeks & then flew across the country to take part in wickedness…It was announced that they would have a special meeting in my former church when I heard this I went to my former pastor with why we should not be involved but I was dismissed. I did attend the meeting & sat in the back to watch what went on. From the beginning of the service it was mass manipulation of the people. The music was repeat of a beat & song to cause the people to be in a stupor. The pastor who attended Lakeland kept hitting himself on the back as if he was hitting a unseen fly. Some people were acting like they were ready to upchuck. There were only a few who did not participate & one was a retired pastor (been in minstry for 60 years ) who sat there & prayed & hung his head. My former pastor just layed there on the altar like he had no knowledge of things going on around him. People who sought those who attended Lakeland were falling all over the place. When there was altar call for all the people to have those who attended Lakeland to lay their hands on the people, that is when I left along with the pastor & several others.
        The Lakeland brought in a big chasm in the AOG with some pastors endorsing it & others saying not to touch it. I commend those pastors who cared enough for their flocks to speak out against it. Early on the leaders in Springfield Missouri could have put a stop to it but their stand was to wait & see & they quoted Gamaliel’s advice from acts 5:39.
        “If it is a work of God, you cannot overthrow it –lest you even be found to fight against God”
        God gives discernemnt to His children & He expects them to use it.

    • lookinforacity says:

      Hi cerinaaaa

      Mat 24:24
      For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

      Notice in this verse Jesus said, “if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.”
      That “if ” is a very big word, it is saying it is not possible.
      Therefore the people you do see going to and becoming part of this kind of a ministry, are described here.

      Eph 4:14
      That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;

      The book of Jude says it all, the people that are leading this parade are deceivers, the people climbing onto the band wagon, are looking for FLESHLY signs, manifestations, feelings, they are easily deceived, being led away captive.

      2Ti 3:1-7
      1) This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.
      2) For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
      3) Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,
      4) Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
      5) Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
      6) For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts,
      7) Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

      Those that can be deceived, will be deceived. We do not need to worry about true believers falling into this pit
      God knows how to save His children. Just as you have had a bad feeling, that is the Holy Spirit speaking, those with ears to hear will hear.
      There will come a day when all of these children in the market place, will be rooted up, there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

      Be Blessed
      JIM

  2. deanneloper says:

    The issue I have with Todd Bentley and the Lakeland Revival is not so much that he fell into sin and adultery, as much as it is the bad foundation of his doctrines (because any one of us can be tempted and can fall). Here I am speaking of his visitation from Emma the angel. I will not go into detail regarding who I think Emma is (See Zechariah ch. 5); there’s enough on the internet and out of Todd’s own writings for anyone to see who really wants to see. The biggest problem with all of these visions, manifestations, ecstasies, portal jumping, instant third heaven experiences and so called angelic visitations by females and orbs of light is that they have absolutely no basis in the Bible. One person who commented above made the point that you shall know them by their fruits, and this is true. However, in these days when we are warned of a great falling away due to seducing spirits and doctrines of demons, the final authority for every spiritual experience MUST be the Word of God. Psalm 138/2 says that God has exalted His Word above all His name. This means that whoever, Christian or not, comes in the name of God (and Jesus said there will be many) must be able to support every teaching, doctrine or experience by the Word of God.

    Jesse Penn-Lewis was a witness to the Welsh Revival and co-wrote a book on this subject with Evan Roberts. The book is about the excesses that occur in every revival and about the great need for true discernment, not by the natural eye or ear, but by the Spirit of God. This is because the demonic can flow right alongside God’s Spirit and then there is the element of the human spirit at work as well, under the guise of the Holy Spirit.

    He who stands, take heed, lest he fall. The process of restoration is a Biblical mandate. But the Bible also says do not put a novice, young, or inexperienced believer in a place of authority. In this situation, though some may disagree because of Todd’s “gifting”, he should have been restored just like any other member of the Body of Christ: in quietness, in serving the body, and in waiting on the Lord. But the fame factor plays a major role in the American church.

    May the Lord open our eyes and may the people of God begin to cry out for true discernment that works by love.

    • Hair Restoration includes the medical and surgical treatment of various forms of hair loss. The most common cause of hair loss is Androgenetic Alopecia (AGA), also known as male pattern baldness or female pattern baldness.

  3. healed.restored says:

    For me the most important issue here is wether  the Holy Spirit leads us in this way or not. If the Spirit is leading us then we’ll be lead into the wisdom and understanding of spiritual things that will be most beneficial

    I personally find the idea of a mixed spiritual anointing to be very strange, surely it must be darkness or light as they cannot dwell together.

    I have been prayed for and fell over and the Lord has worked in me while i was on the floor filled with His spirit. I have also gone through the motions and had either empty or ungodly experiences where there were ungodly and wicked manifestations.  i left the church where this happened about five years ago. it was linked to toronto and was visited by speakers from there. I have grown so much since leaving and although it is a popular church i felt i had to start at squre one and rebuild/redefine my faith totally from the foundations up. i would go as far as to say this church is making people spiritually sick under the pretense of giving them blessing and leading them to know God more. i no longer yearn strongly for spiritual experiences to satisfy my flesh which i did then, rather i desire to follow close to Jesus and experience the real transformation of renewed life through the Holy spirit inside me.  

    I think that for all beleivers there is the danger of not having the ability to really discern what is happening and jumping on the bandwaggon beleiving it’s of God. all we will experience are soulish emotions and counterfeit spirits, thus being lead further and further from the truth of who God is and the real way in which he desires to relate to us, which is through our spirit and not our emotions like these manifestations 

    If christians are not on gaurd to discern between the Holy and the counterfeit then they are in trouble.

    I beleive that the Holy Spirit will lead us daily if we seek Him and follow in the revelation we have received. I beleive that He wills for us to be not deceived. The enemy is sooo subtle and experienced at deceiving men but the Holy Spirit leads us into all truth. He is the same Spirit that tought the Apostles what to guard against and be aware of and He wants no less to do the same in us, hallelujeh, He is able.

    Recently the Lord has lead me to “Watchman Nee’s” the spiritual man and i have learned soo much. Please if you can get a copy. i have never read anything as helpful regarding the foundation of christian living and sound doctrine as this book and know the Lord is greatly blessing me through it.

    Let us not be deceived brothers, if we avocate falsity then we are in a dangerous situation and need to be sorted out and not be mixed up or there will be consequences. Let us walk in the Spirit of truth and expose the works of the enemy for what they are so that our bothers and sisters may see and flee these falsities and be truly united with their real savior.

  4. Everyone seems to be writing rather extensive posts, yet I just can’t help but thinking of what the Word says about all this. Matt. 7:16, “You will know them by their fruits”. I grew up in the Word of Faith, which was a great place to start and rich in the scriptures. In recent years, I’ve embraced many of the ministries listed because you can’t deny the fruit of their ministry. As a healing minister, I immerse myself in testimonies and teachings about healing, and the place where I’m seeing all this are in most of those ministries Andrew spoke about. My faith, knowledge of the Word, moves of the spirit, and actual healings which have taken place after prayer, have increased profusely from seeing, hearing, and learning from the mighty men and women on the ‘list’. They’re teaching and equipping people to go out and do these things as well, just as Christ said. They’re not looking for the ‘glory’, as they wholeheartedly give it all to God!

    Man is not perfect, and will sometimes fall. There may be a few deceived people who have positions in some of these churches and/or ministries, and may have said or done the wrong things at times.. but that doesn’t disqualify the ministry in itself. My suggestion is to ask the Lord to give you the Spirit of Discernment, so that it will be easier to recognize when something is not of God. You can’t go by a feeling, past hurts, someone touching you too hard on the forehead, etc. C’mon people… I just want to be where God is moving and see His manifest glory, DON’T YOU?!

    In conclusion, CAN’T ARGUE WITH SCRIPTURE— CHECK OUT THEIR FRUITS! I say this in the nicest way. When you can witness the healings and people delivered and see the other fruits that they display, that will be the answer in itself.

    Michael, your post was excellent, as are all the other things you write on this site!!!

    Blessings to All!
    Kristyna

  5. debylynne says:

    hello all
    first, i want to say thank you to each one of you for how gracious you are being in this discussion. the very LAST thing i want is to argue or debate in a way that is simply meant to try and “win an argument”. this is all way too painful. i spent 33 years in the charismatic world before coming to see the “pitfalls” for what they really were – deception. for a time you feel as if you cannot trust ANYTHING that has to do with supernatural things – many people stepped completely away from all things that had to do with the “workings of the Spirit” and went into “safe” denominations, as we did. we did as well for a season. it was second only to the death of my first husband, the hardest time i have ever been through. you feel as if you have lost everything – your very identity, as it were. but, i am a “spirit-filled” believer and will NOT deny the Holy Spirit, His gifts, or His operation in my life and the body….we DO have a “supernatural” God that does miracles in our lives and the world. there is no question about this. but, there is ALWAYS the real and the “false”. from the beginning it has been so and that is why the LORD warned us so strongly in Matthew 24 to be on guard and aware of the deceivers that would come “in His name”. that is also why the Apostle Paul, in Acts 20:28-30, warned them so vehemently about those that would “rise up from among even their own” to deceive and mislead and draw the unknowing after themselves. he said he had not stopped warning them for THREE years with tears. paul took this very very seriously.

    i know we are all in agreement about how serious deception and false prophets and wolves are…we have to be if we take the Word of God seriously and those that love Him, do. so, what is the bottom line concerning the initial question here? i believe it comes down to how much damage do we believe that those following after “deceiving spirits” (and i MUST say that i firmly believe these ARE deceiving spirits operating, without question) can do and are doing to the “less knowing” especially, but to the Body of Christ and particularly the “Spirit filled” camp at large? do we believe that what is operating here can lead people to death – to turning from their “first love” – to become “idolaters” as it were which the Word of God says in 1 Corinthians 6, Revelation 21 and Revelation 22 will not inherit the Kingdom of God??

    to me, that is the crucial question. just how serious IS this deception?? we can disagree about some things that are not that important and i agree, brother michael, that some things we just need to let lie and love those that love Him…the end….but, other things – things that DO lead to death..what then??? we can be idolaters in many ways, but when the Holy Spirit shines His light on our hearts we are compelled to repent and cry out to God to change us. but, what if the “spirit” we are heeding is NOT the Holy Spirit..we will go deeper and deeper and like the proverbial “frog in the pot of water” we will not realize that we are dying until it is too late.

    this, to me, is the vital issue. if you believe that your brothers and sisters, by listening to someone you believe to be in error, is going to hit a “bump” in the road that might jog them a little and give them a bruise or two, you would probably not be overly concerned about the situation. but, if you believe that those same brothers and sisters are going to go over a cliff to their complete destruction, you are going to stand on that cliff edge and scream and wave your arms and do whatever you can to warn and stop them.

    so, how serious is this deception?? when you teach about “angels” and focus on them instead of the Lord Jesus Christ, is that not “another gospel”. did paul not say in Galatians 1:8 that whoever should come preaching a “different” gospel, even if it were an ANGEL, let him be accursed. accursed. those are strong words.
    i do realize that not all of these ministries “focus” on angels, but they are focused on others “spiritual things” that in my own opinion, take away strongly from the focus of the Lord Jesus. that is the way it seems to me, and i wish with all my heart that it was not so.

    to each of you i say that i understand what you saying about your struggles. we are, at present, having “house church” because we feel that is how the LORD has led us. we are not saying that there are no “good” churches, but we live in a very small town and our options are rather limited at this time. we also have a coffee shop in our little town and we have tried to have an outreach ministry there, but one reason it hasn’t worked out very well, i’m afraid, is because we are in such a “traditional” church area of the Bible belt and have actually been told that “the Lord will only bless that which operates out of His “church”, meaning a denomination – preferably baptist! oh, well, we love many of these people and were it not for the fact that we so strongly believe that what is being taught from the pulpit is potentially sending people to hell – we would still probably “be there”, but we cannot in clear conscience, do such a thing.

    i will simply share one other thing that has helped us in our struggle and journey. the LORD led us to the ministry of Heaven’s Family. they are based out of pennsylvania and the “leader” ,david servant, does daily devotionals and has online books that you are free to read. they have helped us once more to find a “balanced” view of the Word of God and all that pertains to the working of the Holy Spirit. this ministry does MUCH good in the earth and 100 percent of anything you give goes to THAT cause – all of it. i am serious. all the time, not just during a catastrophe like haiti, God have mercy on them.

    if you would like to check this out you can go to http://www.heavensfamily.org
    simply hoping that you will find encouragement and good teaching from the Word. this ministry is totally about the Word of God and they are spirit-filled, as well.

    michael, i agree whole-heartedly with what you were saying concerning the whole structure and the leadership issues in so many of these “churches”. there is no check and balance system and we humans are so prone to failings and error, that without these “leaders” being able to be questioned and examined on things, to be made TRULY accountable, there is no result to be expected except sin, deception, chaos and flesh flesh flesh.

    thank you once again for listening. i will close for now as i think i’ve said enough.

    love in Him
    dl

  6. Hi Saints,

    Great to read all what each of you have written about Todd Bentley
    and the likes of him.

    I am trying to compose two lists of preachers and their place of residence.

    List A: Those whom one can follow blindly eg. Andrew Wommack / Colarado – USA

    List B: Those who need to be avoided. eg. Todd Bentley / British Columbia – Canada

    Just keep adding and pasting to the above , Saints.

    Cheers

    Vikki

  7. Hi, I am new to this website and wished to add my comments and questions regarding Andrew Strom’s warnings.

    I really liked the comment made by DL.

    I have been studying alot about revivals since our church started talking about wanting to pray for this (a couple of months ago).
    We have people in our church who went to Pensacola and were involved in that.
    So, over the past month I have read hundreds of articles/testimonies on Pensacola & Toronto & Lakeland and also looking at historical revivals like Welsh Revival of 1904, trying to find the truth.
    My search was started off because a number of years ago I, suffered from awful health problems, and made a terrible error and went to a hypnotist. I only went once but in the last 5 minutes of that session I went “under”. What happened to my body was intense buzzing and vibrations that went through me all over. Luckily the session ended quicly after that. I have since repented and asked Jesus for his blood to cleanse me form that experience.

    The reason I share this is that over 1 month ago a pastor in our church invited people up for prayer up the front. He prophesied over me, then started to pray for me & blow on me and touched my foreheard and trying to push me back. I tried to focus extremely hard on pressing in toJesus and then I started to get the vibrations and buzzing again on my arms & shaking. Prayer stoped eventually and I was away from this not uplifted, in fact rather flat. (Just on a side note – when I became a Christian and aksed Jesus into my life I felt the warmth of the Holy Spirit descend on me – this was very different experience, I was completely struck by peace and a quietness came over me…my life was forever chn\anged from that moment onwards)…BUT in comparison this experience made me feel flat.

    I understand that perhaps it is a bodily function that happens once you have operated uder a different level of ‘consciousness’ and that becuase I was focusing so hard that my body did the same thing as when I was under hypnosis OR whether there was something dodgy about the pastor.

    I like to find the Truth. I so would love to see people changed dramatically by the power of God, but I do not want to be invovled in anything that is shifty or possibly deceptive. But at the same time I do not want to not be a part of something in the future that is of God.

    I read somewhere that people will always be filtering their experiences/thoughts through a “tainted” lense (we are all fallne and have sin nature) and that the only TRUTH we have in existance today is the Bible. So at the moment I am clinging to that. I can’t find any biblical proof for any of these types of manifestations at the revivals listed above. But I have read testimonies of people who would attend the exact same meeting where these types of manifestations occur, one says it is definetely of God and the other is it of the Devil…this proves my point about people filtering through already tainted lenses…I mean who is right?

    Then you speak to others who attended Pensacola and they will say Toronto was not of God but Pensacola was a real revival of repentance. Then most have nothing good to say about Lakeland.

    My church friend who attended Pensacola was telling me the ususal lines used by those who attend these meetings…”you can’t box God”….”all revivals are messy”…”all our bodies handle the spirit of God differently”. Where is the Biblical Truth to any of these types of statements though.

    Some people say to look at the lives of those who attended and tell by how their lives have changed and the good things they do now…but I can name so many other people out there who have had their lives changed by New Age teachings, like Erckhart Tolle (he had an almost mirror experience to being born -again just that God was not in it), his life changed and he does good things. Same as the Dalai Lama. My point is that peoples lives can be changed for the good by power not of God.

    My problem is this and would really like some advice. We live in a VERY small island in the middle of the Pacific Ocean. It is a “Christian” nation, there are many Christian churches. The majority are filled by people “attending” and are very “religious” but there is no passion for God in these people’s lives. There is only one church here where the pastors and some people are passionate for God, but I have started to feel uncomfortable with there leading towards “revival”. The blowing and also the intense focus on “spiritual warfare”…lots of futile praying against spirits. People are encouraged ot get up hours each day praying against the spirits so you can be free and have prosperity. Initially this was our first concern the intense focus on the devil

    We have emailed the main pastor but this other pastor that prayed over me is now coming here to lead the church. The main pastor takes the middle road, the balanced view that God is part of manifestations but that there is also the devil as well….we have so many questions for him when he arrives…like how do you tell which is whcih, why have I never seen any account of people/psators casting out demons in people in these revival meetings if there are also manifestations of the devil at them? Why do some pastors feel comfortable with some low level manifestations, like shaking but not the bakring or the violent pushing by some leaders praying over people…or the gold dust or the feathers or the jewels and angels. This main pastor said he went to Toronto and he was not impressed by it at all but his wife was totally changed by the experiences and manifestations?????

    How do we know which is which?

    I have a little girl who I homeschool and her only friends are at this church that we attend, but I have started to feel uncomfortable there. WE are really stuck if we leave this chruch we have no other one to attend. BUT i do not want to attend if deception is in this church.

    I see Andrew’s list and I also get what DL says, how can someone be linked to another which is suspect and who is known to be a false prophet (remember the Bible says in Deutoronomy 18:18-22 that if a prophet’s words do not come to pass then they should be put to death (Deut 13:5). How many “prophets” out there have said so many things that have not come to pass – almost all of the ones I have heard of…

    Almost all of the open heaven/angel/gold dust pastors and churches seem to be linked to each other. A few of them have taken away support of Todd Bentlely but otherwise they are all interlinked.

    Do churches exist where people are passionate for God without all the crazy weird manifestations?

    Please do comment I would sincerely like to hear from anyone. Bless you all & may God’s Truth set us free.

    • Timothy Luke says:

      A couple of thoughts come to mind as I read your post. We homeschool our children and have found other believers in our area who are doing the same. Our homeschool group is Christian centered and the families all attend different churches, but there is a unity of purpose to bring our children up properly without handing them over to a corrupt system. We attend a church that we really like, but the homeschool group is a church in itself in a lot of ways.

      Are there other Christian homeschoolers on the island? You may find strength in fellowshipping socially with them and keeping the worship and praise to a home group with your family and perhaps one or two others, if any care to join with you. These are two separate groups. Homeschool and home church, and they do not need to become one for you to have meaningful fellowship. The homeschool fellowship is very practical oriented in raising Godly children, while respecting one another’s freedom to worship the Lord as they feel lead.

      These are a couple thoughts, I hope there is something useful in them for you…. You asked!

      Tim

      • Thank you Tim,
        The active Christians on the island are pretty much the same group of people that attend our church ( it is a VERY small place).
        But I lke the way you separated the 2 and keeping the homeschooling separate.

        We have 2 other Christian families that do not attend the church that we socialise with and have similar theologies to us so to speak…they do not homeschool but at least we have similar Christian outlook.

        The homeschooling community is not like what it is like in other places – there are not “groups” as such or get togethers as most of them do the ACE syllabus, so they have not need to do group activities. My daughter is only preschool age at present.

        I think it is a good idea to separate.

        The whole situation with our church at the moment is starting to get awkward as it is such a small community and a few people are aware that we currently trying to work out our “position” on this issue. I have asked to drop out of kids church ministry until we work out where we stand. A Part of me wants me to not think this is a big deal but I know it is.

        To still attend a church that has aspects of this type of stuff coming in?

        Thanks again 🙂

        • Timothy Luke says:

          The group activities we have our for socializing more than schooling. A mom or dad may wish to open a class to group members if they are teaching literature or a science or subject, but for the most part, every family works from their own curriculum.

          We have “Snak and Yak” as a weekly teen get together. We have a Mom’s meeting every two weeks where the mothers get together and have a devotional and fellowship and it gives them a place to relate to grown ups and exchange ideas and tips on child rearing and schooling. Some families get together on a certain day for sports activities for an hour or two. These are all things that add to the curriculum. Perhaps by asking the Lord if there is something you can offer fellow homeschoolers, he may put a class, or a fun project, or something in your mind that you can do to help out those who are just beginning…. but wait! YOU are just beginning! 🙂

          We have found a devoted core of people in our homeschool group, who love the Lord, but we do not get into theological debate or discussion. We focus on educating the children and have a great time doing it!

          Hope an idea or two may be in there for you to use. We all need each other….

          Blessings as you pursue giving your daughter a Godly education!
          Tim

  8. dear brother michael,
    thank you for your wise response. you are right. we must be doing and not just pointing out the shortcomings of others. i have noticed that some can make a “ministry” out of pointing out the flaws and errors of others – that seems to be all they do. that, of course, is NOT being a true disciple of Christ.
    i understand what you are saying concerning the “doctrines” that teach things contrary to the true gospel of Christ. we went to what we thought was a “safe” church after having to leave the one we had been in for almost 10 years. we were so devastated by the realization of what was going on in the charismatic world that we felt desperate for somewhere to just “be”. so, we went to a local little country church and thought, now THIS will be “safe”, only to realize that they were teaching that you did NOT need to repent, only “call upon the name of the LORD and you will be saved”. period. all other scripture ignored. the fruit of this was a whole bunch of people getting baptized with no apparent change in their lives and most of them simply didn’t come back. it is as if they are getting their “ticket” punched for a guaranteed seat into heaven and that’s all that is required. what is so horrifying is that the ministers of this denomination are teaching that this is the truth. how many are marching off to hell BELIEVING they are fine and dandy??

    back to the issue at hand. i struggle with heidi and rolland baker because i believe that they “were” the real deal. are they still?? i do not know. i’ve read their books, contributed to their work, but now, i simply feel grieved and confused over what they are endorsing and truly promoting. i really don’t know what to do with the whole “toronto blessing” crowd, but i will say this – that was EXACTLY the group that derek prince was addressing in his book “Protection from Deception”. all this other hadn’t happened before he went to be with the Lord, but toronto had and when he was exposed to it, he clearly determined that it was NOT of the Lord – that people barking and acting like animals and many other such manifestations had no place in the body of Christ and that it was an absolute insult to the Holy Spirit to imply that it was of Him. he stood very firmly against this. now, derek prince was just a man, but through much of what he had experienced before and because, truthfully, of past mistakes, he had learned a great deal and so i respect his conclusions, as well as those of others. before i had read his book, i, being very troubled was praying and asking the Lord if these manifestations were “of Him”?? i will tell you what the Lord spoke to me. He said, “I created man in MY image, why would i desire for him to lower himself and behave as a beast??” i suddenly remembered that the only account in the Bible of someone behaving as a beast was a judgment of God against them. it was so powerful and such clear and simple truth that i simply stopped dead in my praying and realized that this was the truth. the pure and simple unadulterated truth. then, when i read derek prince’s book, i read the same exact thing. these “manifestations” are very common in witchcraft and some eastern religions. as you said, “God hates mixture” and so why, oh why, would it be “ok” with Him that these things are being done in HIS name and attributed to His Holy and perfect Spirit?? AND that others are being taught that this is of God and, not just good, but the BEST?
    i grieve over some on the list, but, i will be honest, others i do feel are wolves and not just deceived. perhaps andrew shouldn’t have included a couple of those. i truly do not know.

    i do know that we cannot continue attending our little “safe” church because to do so is to basically “endorse” what is being taught there and because we truly believe they are sending souls to hell, we cannot be a part of it. i do know that i cannot be involved with any of the ministries on andrew’s list because my convictions are that they have either knowingly or unknowingly gone down the path that is not the “narrow way” i do know that if anyone asked me concerning them i would have to tell them plainly that i do not believe they are of God and warn them to steer clear. the real difference, i suppose, is that andrew went public with it.

    it seems that the real problem arises from the fact that some of these ministries do such GOOD things. but, that is not the real test, is it?? there are many many good things being done in the world today that don’t even claim to be “Christian”. Good things truly CAN be the enemy of the BEST things, don’t you agree? it seems to me that if i were the enemy, i would not be “blatant” in my seduction of believers down roads that lead to death – most of us would have at least enough sense not to just go merrily along if it were clearly something evil. no, i believe that if i were the devil i would use “good” things to draw believers away from the true road….i believe i would make it hard to tell the difference…so close…just a few degrees to the left, as it were. and, i believe that is what he does. so, in the end, the LORD JESUS will not be the MAIN thing, the ONLY thing that matters – there will be all this focus on all these “other” things and they will lose their first love. now, THAT, in my opinion, is a truly dangerous and diabolical plan.

    i’ll tell you the truth, michael. having been in all this up to my eyebrows, this is what happens. you start out just wanting HIM, and then you begin to encounter all these emotions and tingles and feelings and “supernatural occurences” (but NOT the same as the “supernatural” of the Bible) and before you know it, it isn’t about seeking HIM or wanting HIM any longer. no, it is about seeking after these “manifestations”, about wanting THEM. you absolutely “crave” this stuff.

    do you not believe that people can ultimately “lose their salvation” by opening themselves to deceiving spirits?? if that is “possible”, then must we not warn them??

    thank you again – you are very gracious to allow me to pour out my heart this way.

    In Him
    dl

    • Timothy Luke says:

      DebyLynne, I would like to jump into your conversation with Michael to say simply that I appreciate your heart and your insight. I agree with it. My wife was healed and the church the Lord used to heal us was a thousand miles away. We had learned that the giftings of the Holy Spirit are available for today, but then we were referred to Benny Hinn’s “Good Morning Holy Spirit” by this same ministry and left to go from there.

      Toronto was just 3 hours away, so we visited there. We were not impressed with the manifestations. I approached a prayer team and said I had received prayer and that I had not been slain in the spirit. Was wondering if there was something wrong with me, or what? The young man and his aides prayed for me and gently, but firmly pushed my forehead…. I thought, “I’d better not resist, perhaps I should go back in faith and then receive from the Lord. I went backward and as I lay with my eyes closed and absolutely nothing happening manifestation wise, I heard the guy make a prideful remark to his friends and knew that I did not agree with the spirit operating there.

      “An adulterous generation seeks after a sign.” “Signs and wonders follow them that believe.” If you are pursuing signs and wonders, you are chasing the devil’s tail. If you seek first the Kingdom of God and His righteousness, all things will be added to you – they will pursue and overtake you without your seeking.

      Later, I found out that the ministry that referred us to Benny Hinn’s book, was not in agreement with Toronto either. Frankly, my blunt opinion of the sign seekers, is that they are adulterous and they are seeking a sensual experience. they get the same addictive hit of dopamine and internal feel good chemicals in the body as a cocaine addict when he takes his hit. They become hooked on the sensation and abandon the sobriety of spirit we are called to walk in. New Wine? – not mine…

      Thank you for your thoughts and candor. I believe the Lord will use it to minister to others!

      Tim

      • warrior daughter says:

        I posted this earlier but it ended up on another thread so will repost.

        I understand the working of a unholy spirit in these meetings that is being pushed and shoved and pulled into the charismatic churches.
        I have seen to many times to count those who abuse others by insisting that one must fall under the power of the so called spirit. I have also see those who will prey upon those whose human spirit is easily manipulated and they will rush to this person so they can pray over them and the person will fall down. And yes, it is a addictive to those whether it be to the ones being used or the ones being prayed for.
        The Holy Spirit is a gentleman and does not bring attention to Himself nor does He ask to be worshipped. When one is sitting in a meeting and the worship and the sermon centers around the Holy Spirit, then it is time to leave.
        I have been away from this deception that was being put forth in my former church for the past 8 months. I did not realize how bad it was until, I finally woke up one Sunday morning and realized that by continuing in this church I was endorsing it. I knew it was wrong but when I spoke out about it I became the a outcast through the leadership and members. I have not regretted the decision to leave nor my speaking out on what was and continues to go on.

    • Hi Debylynne,

      I really appreciate your posting on this site, and you sharing your heart. What I really appreciate is what I perceive as your “love of the truth” which is a super precious quality to have in these last days.

      I think it is important for us to be able to rebuke things we don’t agree with, without cutting off all ties of fellowship, at least at first. There is a lot in that statement. Timothy was told by Paul to reprove, rebuke and so on – but Paul didn’t say, “throw out of the church everyone you need to reprove or rebuke”. Of course, when wrong teaching or practice gets to a certain level, it is time to cut the bonds of fellowship.

      Part of the problem as I see it, is that few pentecostal and charismatic are set up with a culture in which the senior leadership themselves can be rebuked and challenged. So if leader teaches a defective gospel, or opens the door to a false spirit, instead of being held accountable to the CHURCH, the people of the church basically have two options, after prayer. One is, sit and tolerate or accept it. Two – leave the church and seek another church.

      What should be happening is that there ought to be a culture where you can challenge the teachings and practices of the church, using the authority of the Scriptures.

      Pastors themselves are sheep. They behave like sheep. They look around to see what other pastors are doing, and if there is a sensation, if there is growth, if it seems to be working, many of them will flock to the latest conference or sensational ministry. Thus Satan only has to deceive a few “key players” in the charismatic world, and the majority of pastors, whose accountability is somehow to their peers, will happily bleat along and follow the piper. 100,000+ pastors have flocked onto Rick Warren’s newsletter. Many of the them are pentecostals. Rick Warren is a NWO-friendly, gay-friendly, non tongues speaking, affable ecclesiastical entrepreneur with visions to change the world through social action. Yet people follow him, because he understands psychology and secular leadership strategies extremely well. Pastors who follow him will feel that there is safety in numbers.

      We should aim to avoid both the sins of commission AND sins of ommission. To this end, we have to be willing to take instruction from people who can teach us and train us in things that we ought to be doing effectively. We may not subscribe to all of their doctrines and practices, but we should be humble enough to learn.

      If not, the church will fragment in 2 to the power n fragments, where ‘n’ is the number of issues Christians do not agree on. I don’t believe this will do either, since Jesus did pray for UNITY amongst His people. Not a unity based on error and compromise, but a unity based on Himself. He who has the Son has Life. Who He does not have the Son of God does not have Life.

  9. debylynne says:

    dear brother michael
    i understand completely what you are saying. where DO we draw the line then? the Lord drew lines – the apostles and the early church DID draw lines. when it comes right down to it, we are determining that “love” is accepting without criticism or warning what these “believers” are doing,,,,at the very very REAL cost of those less knowing or understanding of the scriptures and the clear true working of the Holy Spirit.
    brother, would you not agree that the Apostles – those that were the true Apostles – would denounce these things??
    there is no place here for “mud slinging” or “judging and condemning” people for OUR views on their personal beliefs. there has NEVER been a more important time to stand up for the absolute truth of the Word of God and JUDGE accordingly. we are warned, commanded, as it were, to “judge” any type of ministry or teaching that says it is of the LORD and to whole-heartedly reject that which is not and warn others. this IS our responsibility. it isn’t the “attacking” of sincere believers that are deceived. if that is what anyone is doing, they need to REPENT earnestly. it is our responsiblity to expose the workings of satan through those people. for the sake of the weak, dear brother, if for no other reason. i weep over these – the whole situation breaks my heart. i’m not angry at these peoiple. i am grieved that they have taken this road.

    when lakeland happened and our own eyes began to be opened, we were told by others not to “judge”. we had a small ministry here in our little town which involved young people – and many of them were being drawn in to bentley’s circus. we HAD to take a stand – we had to warn them. many did not want to hear it, especially the adults involved, but, at much personal cost, we had to. as i said before, the Word of God tells us to JUDGE those things being done in His name and to utterly reject what is not of Him. i cannot begin to tell you how hard this was – it cost us relationship with some of our own children to stand on the Word of God. we had people tell us that they didn’t really “care” if it wasn’t truly “right”, they LOVED the way it “felt”. no, i’m not kidding. and i am sure, very sure, that there are many others out there that chose to “feel” the same.

    but, we were able to warn some, and some of those DID take heed. so, that is why i cannot say “be quiet, andrew, and let’s just love each other”. some are deceived believers, i do believe, and others are “wolves in sheep’s clothing”. dear brother, for the sake of “appearing” to love one another, shall we let the wolves ravage the flock??

    i guess it comes down to how serious we think this “wave of deception” truly is?? i happen to think it is VERY serious and all i know from the Word is that the Lord Himself warned us strongly to reject the deception. why “warn” us if it wasn’t “that big of a deal”. why? because the end of this road, i truly believe, is death.

    i’ve noticed something about these “ministries”. while they talk about the LORD and appear to do so many “good” things, the LORD JESUS gets smaller and smaller and the focus on our “experiences” and “feelings” get larger and larger. ANYTHING that takes the focus off the Lord Jesus is to be rejected. even the Holy Spirit does not want our focus on Himself. the Lord Jesus is to be lifted up and the gifts of the Holy Spirit are only to reveal HIM, Jesus. these supposedly “spiritual” experiences are NOT to be focused on and to run after and seek after and measure our “faith” and our walk with God by how many of these “manifestations” we have or are around. 1 John is a wonderful place to go to “measure” yourself in the Lord, if you will. true Christianity, not this hyper-emotional mess. the Lord’s words, “there is a way that seems right to a man, but the end thereof is death” have not changed. that is why i take this so seriously. because i truly believe that the end for many on this road will be spiritual death – i truly do – because ultimately this road will bring them to the place of rejecting the TRUE gospel and the TRUE Jesus…that’s how i see it. and it breaks my heart. thank you again for allowing me to share that heart with you.

    love in Him
    dl

    • We have to draw the line when a person teaches doctrine which, if believed, will cause a person to fall from grace.

      I think Andrew was right to warn about Todd Bentley, but I think he went to far on warning against some of the others. I have warned against Lakeland myself, and it might now be necessary to warn people about Morningstar Ministries (which I have also done to a lesser extent). Anyone who makes it his business to endorse Todd Bentley unless he truly repents is someone I would not TRUST. I would be willing to learn from them in other areas, but I would not trust them. After all, there are things we can learn from even atheists!

      Incidentally, there are plenty of people who teach that God does not require repentance for those who wish to enter heaven. These are people that, even without false signs and wonders, have done a lot of damage to the Body of Christ. Others teach that we should trust the rituals of priests. Again, these things deny the core gospel of Jesus Christ. What do you think?

      I appreciate the fact that you have taken a difficult stand which has cost you personally.

      I think that all of us “warners” have to be careful that we are DOING the things Jesus taught us to do in the gospel, because “warning others” is not enough if we want to do the will of God.

  10. debylynne says:

    dear brother michael,
    having been personally involved with much of what brother andrew is “exposing”, i will have to disagree with your view. i believe that if the apostle paul were in our midst, he would NOT hesitate to denounce what has taken and continues to take place under the heading of the Holy Spirit. i watched david wilkerson weep over what these are calling the Spirit of God, and i wept with him.

    we are to be merciful and gracious to our brothers and sisters, yes, but we are not to compromise the truth to any degree. dear brother, shall we say “peace at ANY price”??? even to looking the other way or “endorsing” things being done in the name of the LORD which are clearly not of His Spirit??

    i personally applaud brother andrew for being willing to take a stand. so many will not and call it “tolerance”. Jesus was not “tolerant” and nor were His apostles that i can see. they “exposed” those and their activities that were not truly of His Spirit. ultimately, the reason, of course, is love. love for those that are deceived and great love for those that could be if nothing be said to warn them.

    derek prince wrote a very good book, “Protection from Deception”. i would recommend it to all to read because i believe they would greatly benefit from his experience, mistakes, and warnings.

    thank you very much for allowing me to share my heart in this. as i said, i have had very up close and personal involvement with virtually ALL of the “ministries” mentioned and /or those that were connected to them and while it grieves me to say this, i urge everyone to take heed to this warning. there are “babes in Christ” out there that can very easily be destroyed by these “spirits” from this “other gospel”.

    andrew’s right, you know. there is nothing in the Word of God to give place to these “manifestations” and the biggest “pitfall” i see is that people would rather run after all these “chills and thrills” than be true disciples of Christ and be about the Father’s business. have you seen the ecstasis (sp??) worship promoted by patricia king, AND, sadly, by heidi baker?? does this resemble ANYTHING you find in the New Testament??
    i’ve taken part in “worship” like this and i can tell you what it is. it is a journey into sensuality. we are not told in the Word of God to set our “understanding” aside and just “feel”. you open the door to some truly UNgodly things when you do.

    as i said, i found out the hard way. getting free of all the deception was HARD. i would warn anyone of the same. the “measuring rod” of our experiences in God is NOT how they make us “feel”, it is the Word of God and the leading of the Holy Spirit, which will NEVER disagree with that Word.

    thank you again
    dl

    • Hi Debylynne,

      Thanks for your recent comment.

      Obviously it is pretty important that these matters be discussed.

      I can agree with Andrew Strom that Rick Joyner would be one person whose interesting ministry people would now be well advised to stay away from. That is my personal judgement.

      The problem is that we are only 6 degrees of separation at most away from any of these people.

      By seeking to shun all the people who love Jesus but have spiritual error somewhere, and urging others to totally disengage from such people, we produce SUCH A WORLDWIDE FRACTURE in the Body of Christ that these people will not certainly not know us by our love, but rather by our “fortress mentality”. And who is to say that ALL our current views are correct? How do we also shun ourselves?

      I don’t believe Jesus wants us to be a bunch of disunited people who treat one another like spiritual lepers and preach a kind of holiness which can be practiced entirely behind a computer screen.

      If you were to gather all people who agree with Andrew Strom under one roof, you could probably also find they would not want to work together, they would all be led in different ways, and they would disagree about so many doctrines. Is that fair to say?

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